Talk:Prizrak Brigade

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Source from the Ukrainian government not reliable

User @Shuba: is using a Ukrainian government source to call this military formation "terrorist".[1] This definition is limited to one of the two warring parties in the Donbass conflict, and the military formation is not considered "terrorist" at the international level, therefore the text cannot be presented in this way.--Mhorg (talk) 10:29, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

So named quasi-states LNR and DNR backed by Russia were designated as "terrorist organisations" by Supreme Court of Ukraine. See complete references in the List of designated terrorist groups. That means that all internal military units of that quasi-states acted in Ukrainian territory become terrorists as well. Moreover, official Ukrainian Government counter-offensive action against gangs on East of Ukraine was called The Anti-Terrorist Operation. Those facts (which are stricly related to official position of Government of Ukraine) could be enough to call so named "Prizrak Brigade" (and any other illegal military units) a terroristic unit. And one more point from my side. I think that ANY illegal military unit of ANY country could be a priori named "terrorist unit" from affected country's point of view. Shuba (talk) 23:32, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Please do not modify the article if you have not yet obtained consensus. About what you wrote: yes, this is the point of view of the Ukrainian State. Please, read the Wikipedia rules carefully, you are presenting this text as if the military formation were internationally recognized as terrorist. Of course you can specify that the Ukrainian state defines the organization as "terrorist".--Mhorg (talk) 19:53, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

War crimes

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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@Kebapkebvab: You say that the source in the lead supports the claim that Prizrak have been accused of war crimes. I have the book in front of me and am looking at the cited pages, but I cannot see this claim. Can you provide the exact quote and page number you believe the source supports this claim? — Czello 07:55, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Aleksey Mozgovoy - Wikipedia "He was the leader of the pro-Russian Prizrak Brigade and also served as "judge" on the "People's Court", notorious for issuing controversial death sentences.(https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/war-against-ukraine/russian-backed-military-commander-assassinated-after-speaking-out-against-cease-fire-389345.html)

the sentencing was issued by then Prizrak battalion leader Aleksy Mozogovy, By his own admission. Are you saying the leader of the battalion he is a liar?. War crime.

provide a credible counter-source, not from a Novelty book you won't evewn share the title of might i add. Im waiting for you disprove the countless videos of Aleksey , and multiple news agencys accusing him and the battalion for War crimes of POW and civilians of Donbas. Kebapkebvab (talk) 08:50, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

The book I'm referencing (the one I assumed you were referencing) is the one that is actually cited in the lead Armies of Russia's War in Ukraine. The source you have just produced isn't in the article at all. Additionally, it still doesn't use the phrase war crimes at all: if you're going to interpret this wording to mean a war crime then that's original research. However, as you're clearly sock puppeting I suspect this dispute will be over shortly. — Czello 08:57, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

1. doesn't need to refference the exact words "war crimes". the action is sufficient enough. stop cherry picking irrelevant arguments. 2. you either lack reading comprehension because i precisely asked for a counter-source that denies the exact words (both text and recorded) of the battalion Prizraks then commander Aleksy Mozogvy. Judging how your going off topic or cherry picking irrelevant points i can tell this will be over shortly aswell. Kebapkebvab (talk) 09:01, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

No, that's WP:OR. Please provide a source which states that they have been accused of war crimes, rather than relying on your own interpretation. — Czello 09:05, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

that's WP:OR ? A literal court hearing attended by Aleksy Mozgovoy himself?? orr his Battalions top commanders? Maybe the Ghosszt of Kiev was not the first to appear but it was the Ghost of Mozogovy , according to your assesment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU5_DVGQ4wk&ab_channel=UKRAINETODAY

"two civiilians of Luhansk, both sex offenders accused and sentenced in a kangaroo court, to death," During the conflict of 2014 sentenced without any kind of court hearing, legal aid assistance, only given death sentences. these are civilians (but more important. ethnic Ukranian POWs) of Donbas If that isn't a war crime, please share with us your definition of what a war crime is? Kebapkebvab (talk) 09:11, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

By the way, Don't reply back that UKRAINETODAY is not a credible source Because the language spoken by them ,is universal. and cant be disproved on that point alone. Kebapkebvab (talk) 09:13, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

• • A court sentencing attended by pro-Mozgovoy compatriots, their conclusion of the Sex offence charges was a show of hands.which was in majority

+1 for democracy , but don't worry guys, according to Czello. This is not war crime. Kebapkebvab (talk) 09:24, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

The fact that you're trying to draw a conclusion based on what you feel a war crime is demonstrates you haven't understood WP:OR. Do you have a source that explicitly says they have been accused of war crimes? — Czello 09:27, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that i was dealing with the hearing impaired, oh wait, theirs also English subtitles for the videos. You can try again though. Also Im still waiting for that counter-argument for you to disprove Aleksy Mozgovoys own admission written in both text and shown in video recording. still waiting.. Kebapkebvab (talk) 09:30, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Per WP:RSP non-verified YouTube accounts aren't reliable sources. Even if this were a reliable source, at no point does it say Prizrak brigade has been accused of war crimes. — Czello 09:33, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

irrelevant points but Language is universal and Aleksey Mozgovoy and his Prizrak compatriots were present at this court hearing in the year (2014). and both spoke. How to disprove their involvement when they are physicallly and verbally present? still waiting for valid counter-points and credible source that disproves their involvement. if you cannot prove that than clearly this Talk is over and the revision remains. Kebapkebvab (talk) 09:38, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

Not in line with Wikipedia policy, edits are still heavily leaning on WP:OR. As this user has been indeffed and been unable to provide any sources, I think we can conclude this dispute. — Czello 13:51, 6 May 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A note

Just as other illegal armed groups, they arbitrary detained people and tortured them. See, for example this report by Amnesty International: [2]. page 30-31 (Prisoners taken by Prizrak Brigade). The group was led by Aleksey Mozgovoy who was famous specifically for lynching. My very best wishes (talk) 03:01, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Does the brigade still exist?

Hi Dirkk 123, I know that is the flag of the Prizrak[3] but I believe that this military formation no longer exists as an independent entity in the LPR. In fact, the article does not mention the Prizrak. Or does it?--Mhorg (talk) 07:35, 27 June 2022 (UTC)

I am seeing that on this official media of the republic, they are described as Prizrak fighters. Maybe they still exist then.[4]--Mhorg (talk) 07:36, 27 June 2022 (UTC)