Talk:Praelegal

This page was proposed for deletion by 3mi1y (talk · contribs) on 3 April 2024.

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Praelude to deletion

I concur with the proposed deletion of this article, but thought it might be worth giving some reasons. This stub article claims to be part of Roman history, but everything said about Roman history is utterly bogus:

PraeLegal (combination of words PRAE and LEGAL) refers to second period of the Roman era. After praetor lost his power and Rome became a republic, the senate tried to bring on new changes based on ancient-logical laws of Rome and Greece.

The explanation for the term fails to explain it; and although it purports to be Latin, "legal" is English (though derived from Latin). This "second period" of the "Roman era" refers to the Roman Republic itself, but it had nothing to do with someone called "praetor" losing his power—the Republic is traditionally defined as the period following the expulsion of Tarquin the Proud, the last Roman king. "Praetor" was probably the original title of the consuls, who became the chief executives of the Republic, although the office probably existed under the kings, and was later bestowed on magistrates who were subordinate to the consuls. The rest of this sentence is gibberish: it doesn't make any sense or refer to any particular event from Roman history.

This sentence was added by the article's original author shortly after the rest, which suggests an advertisement for some group or alliance of law firms presumably meant to be engaged in international law. The absurd claim to derive its origin from Roman history looks like cover for this inept self-promotion. But this article has nothing to do with WikiProject Classical Greece and Rome, and is not about legal terminology.

Someone attempted to add several paragraphs about the alleged organization in 2020, and was reverted twice. If such an organization exists, no sources were cited to attest it. While I'm normally a strong advocate of WP:BEFORE, Wikipedia is not a place to advertise businesses, and at a bare minimum an article about a law firm or organization of law firms would need to show some evidence of notability, which neither the vague and jargony description here nor the longer, equally vague, and boastful claims that the organization served 142 countries, previously reverted, provides anything to lead the reader to believe that the organization is real. P Aculeius (talk) 12:28, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

James500, would you mind linking to a few of the sources you found for this meaning "pre-legal"? ℰmi1y_⧼T·C⧽ 12:43, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I ran the following searches in Google Books:

"praelegal": Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

"prae-legal": Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

"prælegal": Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

"præ-legal": Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Large numbers of results come up immediately. As for the meaning "pre-legal", it is the literal translation of the expression. Examples in English language sources include the University of Chicago Law Review [1], quoted in a German law book [2], where it is used to refer to pre-legal education. And the Herald and Genealogist [3], where it is used to refer to the history of the area called "The Temple" in London, before the barristers established their two of their four Inns of Court there (ie before there were any lawyers there). The other sources that come up are generally old books, written in Latin and other foreign languages, some of which are obviously about Roman law (and therefore Civil law and Continental law), which use the term praelegal (however spelled), to refer to something that I do not fully understand, such as: [4] [5] [6], amongst others. For the avoidance of doubt, I think this expression may also be a plausible typo for "praelegas", when written with a long s, that appears in some sources. Since we allow redirects from any plausible typo or misnomer, none of this is particularly important. This term is obviously plausible for "pre-legal", because "prae" is the Latin prefix that means, in particular, "before in time": [7] [8] [9] [10] [11]. The prefix is discussed in more detail in other sources: [12]. The page has had about 1,600 page views since about 2016. Clearly someone is looking for it. James500 (talk) 01:39, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I should have said "used in English to mean pre-legal".

Regardless, that's enough for me to let the redirect stand. Thanks for replying. ℰmi1y_⧼T·C⧽ 03:50, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]