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Source

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— Preceding unsigned comment added by JimmyBlackwing (talk • contribs) 19:53, 5 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"Pokemon Stadium 3" listed at Redirects for discussion

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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Pokemon Stadium 3. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 21#Pokemon Stadium 3 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TheAwesomeHwyh 15:28, 21 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Pokémon Stadium/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Pokelego999 (talk · contribs) 01:47, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reviewer: Andrzejbanas (talk · contribs) 20:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will begin looking at this article over the weekend. Andrzejbanas (talk) 20:40, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I guess when I said weekend, I mean several weekends ahead. ;) Some early points from an early draft.


Sourcing

  • "Unlike the Game Boy games Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow, Pokémon Stadium does not have a storyline or a well-defined world or story, meaning that it is not considered a role-playing video game" Not quite what the source says, it does say its lack those elements, but not that these elements make or do not make an RPG.

Style

  • The title Pocket Monsters' Stadium is in bold, but this seems to be referring to the earlier Japanese game. Putting it in bold here, at least for those familiar with wikiformatting, would make it look like this is an alternative title for this game.

Phrasing Lead

  • "" Always hard to list release dates like this in a healthy manner. But for shortening it in the lead, Maybe take a page from the Donkey Kong Country article. Perhaps change the lead to...
    • Pokémon Stadium{{efn|Known in Japan as Pokémon Stadium 2 (Japanese: ポケモンスタジアム２Pokemon Sutajiamu 2) is a 1999 [genre] video game developed and published by Nintendo video game develope dand published by Nintendo for the Nintendo 64." and then later before mentioning the "best-selling titles", You can say "Pokémon Stadium was released in Japan in 1999, before being its release in Australia, Europe and North America in 2000."
    • Tried implementing this. Let me know if this is good. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:17, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • Not bad, might lose calling Pocket Monsters Stadium a Nintendo 64 game, as that's not too important for the lead. Andrzejbanas (talk) 09:34, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • " A sequel, Pokémon Stadium 2, released in 2000, supporting connectivity with the games Pokémon Gold, Pokémon Silver, and Pokémon Crystal games." lose the either the first or second "games" term.
  • "Stadium was later re-released on the Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack on April 12, 2023" drop the "later", the date makes that clear.

Gameplay

  • "Unlike the Game Boy games Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow, Pokémon Stadium does not have a storyline or a well-defined world or story, meaning that it is not considered a role-playing video game." Probably should clarify that these are the older games.
  • "Pokémon are depicted in 3D, and have unique animations in-battle, which is a first for the series.", I mean, in North America, but Pokemon Stadium (in Japan) was clearly before this as mentioned earlier.
  • "Only three Pokémon may be selected to bring to a battle out of the six brought."

Pocket Monsters' Stadium

  • This section reads more like a mini-article for the the original game. Also, the lead of this article states "Originally intended for the 64DD, it was later developed into a standard console game after the add-on failed.", is that this game or the original game called Pokemon Stadium. As they both share similar titles. this isn't clear. This information can probably be moved to its own article with some of maintained for a production seciton on this. While I'm aware most Pokemon games do not have a lot of information regarding their development. I would suggest looking at an article like Mario Party DS and at least using it as a model for games that have very little in their development.
    • I would oppose a separate article. This game has no individual reception from the searches I did while improving this article, so the info doesn't really have anywhere else to go. A lot of the dev info for Stadium is primarily in the form of Pocket Monsters Stadium, since Stadium was primarily building on Pocket Monsters as a base, so there's a bit of heavy overlap there. Admittedly I'm unsure how you want me to phrase this to be more akin to MP DS given the amount of info on Pocket Monsters; could you elaborate a bit on what you want me to do here? Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:17, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      • As another user has come into the conversation, I've posted my notes there, but to paraphrase here, with very quick research, I've found about 6 unique reviews to that game, and that was without even a lot of hunting for Japanese sources. Perhaps something similar to how Super Mario Bros. Deluxe handles the situation would be ideal. Andrzejbanas (talk) 09:34, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Release and promotion

  • "Pokémon Stadium was announced in the December 1998 issue of The 64Dream" is this a magazine? If so, the magazine should be in Italics.
  • Maybe a bit more clarification what the "Japan-exclusive Pokemon Festival" is. (i.e: the articles doesn't state it's Japanese exclusive, its just a promotional even around Japan that seemed to take place in a few cities).

Reception

  • The reception section is a lot "[website said this this and this]". Generally, its better to combine the topics and what was complimented by the sources to make it a bit more readable.
    • This falls under WP:SYNTH. Unless a source highlights the widespread negative/positive reception for something, it's best not to make original judgements regarding aspects of a review. If you feel I can phrase this better to be a bit less formulaic though, let me know what I can do. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:17, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
      • Its not a violation of synth to say something like "IGN, GameSpot and [Other gamer review] complimented the games graphics/animation." or something. It's just to help summarize reviews per WP:VG/REC. I don't see how this would be a violation of synth as we would not be implying and conclusion or set statement. Correct me if I'm misunderstanding what you mean in terms of violating SYNTH. Andrzejbanas (talk) 09:34, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • " Stadium was unable to replicate the success of the Game Boy games before it." what does this mean? Financially? quality of game? If its in terms of sales, then this should probably go in the release section discussing financial. If its in terms of quality of game, it should be clarified.

I think that section involving the production will require some re-working in general so once that is tackled, I'll be able to give this a second look, along with the other points I've brought up before @Pokelego999: Andrzejbanas (talk) 03:27, 6 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrzejbanas sorry about the wait, been busy lately. Will try to get to this in the next few days. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 17:02, 14 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrzejbanas: Responded to your comments. Also, I see that you've made User:Andrzejbanas/Draft/Sample containing some more content; would it be alright to port some of that content into the article? Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 05:17, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, was going to bring that up in a later review here. The Pokemon franchise was in very full swing in the late 1990s and the fandom really caught people off guard. While still popular today, this was shaking up Nintendo sales at large, beyond just selling a lot. I've created this as a sample after searching for content, and I think it clarifies some key details, particularly, how the game was promoted in Japan (alongside other Pokemon titles), how its sales were (with context, we can always give a number, but is that a lot for a video game? is that a lot for Nintendo? context helps). I think expands what is otherwise currently a relatively dry part of the article. Feel free to apply it here.

Good work so far, but I still think content should be moved to another article, even if its creates a fairly smaller production section. Some articles, even well researched and expanded ones, such as Mario Party DS are just going to have smaller sections. I would try to create something similar to the two Mario titles (Mario Party DS and Super Mario Bros. Deluxe) as suggested above for these issues. @Pokelego999:. Andrzejbanas (talk) 09:34, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrzejbanas I've added some content from your draft, and additionally drafted out a mock article for the Japanese only release at User:Pokelego999/sandbox/Pocket Monsters Stadium Outline. I'm still a bit iffy on a split, but I'd be willing to give it a shot if you feel the content here is enough. Was able to dig up a few more IGN articles for the game, which helped with content a bit, but the reviews are pretty short for the most part, which concerns me a bit. If you feel this should get split, I'll begin work on revamping the development section. If you feel it shouldn't, I'll alter the sections to cover both content from the Japanese release and the international releases individually. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 22:02, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The reviews are generally a bit short, but its a game without a lot of content to really discuss, but honestly, sometimes that's just what is dealt to you when the content is there, and it can be expanded upon, especially if any other Japanese sources discussing the game pop up. I think you've done a pretty good job with it for its own article. Obviously requires a lead and an infobox, but you are a fine editor, I'm confident it'll stand. Andrzejbanas (talk) 22:18, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Andrzejbanas split done. Could you look over the article again to see where else improvements can be done/see if there's any information I missed that's meant to be included at the new split? The new development section is a bit late, so I'd appreciate remarks there since I feel fusing it with Release may be unwieldy. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 23:19, 22 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Since split

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Okay. The article has clearly changed a bit since the split, so I'll try to tackle this a bit more fresh.

Lead

  • "It was the first Stadium title released in Western regions, succeeding the Japan-only 1998 Nintendo 64 release Pocket Monsters' Stadium. The gameplay revolves around a 3D turn-based battling system using the 151 Pokémon from the Game Boy games Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow." Maybe getting a bit ahead of ourselves. Maybe explain what this game is first. The sequel stuff is relatively minor, as this isn't a narrative sequel or anything per se.
  • "Using the Transfer Pak accessory that was bundled with the game, players are able to view, organize, store, trade, and battle using Pokémon uploaded from Pokémon Red, Blue, and Yellow." This sentence sort of makes it sound like they require Red/Blue/Yellow to do these. While true with some "organizing, trading, etc." you can battle with rented Pokemon as well. You can also even play the Game Boy Game on the N64 via the Dodrio/Doduo thing right? Might need re-phrasing.
  • "The game includes four stadium cups, each of which is a series of three-on-three Pokémon battles against an ordered lineup of opponents. Gym Leader Castle mode involves battles against the eight Kanto gym leaders and the Elite Four." the specific details like Gym Leaders, Elite Four, and the stadiums kind of only makes sense if you've played the games. might want to state something like "The game has various modes for battles called the "Stadium Cups" and "The Gym Leader Castle" which apply different rules for players to pick their pokemon." Not exactly this, but something a little more broad for people the casual reader.
  • "supporting connectivity with the games Pokémon Gold, Pokémon Silver, and Pokémon Crystal" probably can lose this info to tighten up lead a bit.
    • Tried shuffling around the lead a bit to be more concise and understandable. I disagree on the Transfer Pak thing since it's discussing it as an add-on to pre-existing gameplay, not a requisite for gameplay. I also don't really see how being able to play the GB games is super relevant to understanding the core gameplay. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 20:48, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Gameplay

  • "The game also featured an announcer, portrayed by actor Ted Lewis, who says voice lines in response to actions that occur in battle." Good find on this credit. Perhaps this, and the information about this and Ikue Ōtani voicing Pikachu could be added to development? While its maybe not perfect there, its probably more appropriate there than gameplay. Maybe something as simple as "The game features voice acting from Ted Lewis as the announcer and Ikue Otani, who had voiced Pikachu in the anime series.
  • "Players bring teams of six Pokémon; these can either be selected from an option of rental Pokémon with pre-determined movesets that are not able to be altered, or they can be imported from the Game Boy games using the Nintendo 64 Transfer Pak." Maybe best to explain what rental pokemon are. Something like "Players select teams of six Pokémon to battle. These are either Pokemon collected from Pokemon Red, Blue, Yellow via the Nintendo 64 Transfer pak, or Pokémon with pre-determined movesets included in Pokemon Stadium."
  • Maybe a bit detail on the cups? How do they work? We have so much detail on the mini-games, but little on the cups. Even just an example of one or two of them could clarify how they work.
  • "as well as the Gym Leader Castle, where the player battles the eight Kanto Gym Leaders, the Kanto Elite Four, and the Champion." This is all a bit narrative that is difficult to parse for people who haven't played either Red/Blue/Yellow or this game. Might be easier to explain it via what makes it different than the cups.
    • The real only standout feature of them is the fact they're against opponents from the Game Boy games. The other bit is how you get Pokémon for beating them, which I've added, and is already clarified a bit in the Transfer Pak features. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 20:48, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • To my dismay, I think the surfing Pikachu bit might be breaking WP:NOT#GAMEGUIDE.
  • We might be going a bit overboard with the mini-games section. This would be like explaining each mini-game The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask, and while those have coverage, it might be better to summarize the game has various mini-games in the Kids Korner, featuring pokemon in games that resemble Simon Says and ring toss as well as games like require either rapid or intricate button input such as Thundering Dynamo etc.

Development and infobox While this section is small, it would be great to expand it into at least two paragraphs as sections that only have one paragraph tend to look underdeveloped.

  • It might be good to say at least a little something about the Pocket Monsters Stadium here a little, as we bring it up in the lead. Something like "Pokemon Stadium was developed by Nintendo EAD. Producer Shigeru Miyamoto explained in 1997 that Nintendo EAD was then a group of 20 to 30 staff each devoted to every title. Within EAD, a programming group called SRD, involved a seperate company of about 200 people working exclusively for Nintendo.[Source:Nintendo Power August 1997 Issue 99 in their Pak Watch section]. While this does not directly related to Stadium, it gives somewhat an idea of how games are made at Nintendo at this time period. Prior to the release of Pokemon Stadium, Nintendo published Pocket Monsters' Stadium. The game was initially set for 64DD and made to feature 150 Pokemon from the game boy games. This number was was reduced to 40 and released on cartridge for the Nintendo 64." etc. You could also include the information about the voice actors here as well. This will give this section a bit more "oomph" I think.
  • On this note on the developers, there is no mention of them in the prose in the infobox. While I feel this is key information that we can't expand on, citations for people not mentioned within the article should probably be placed in the infobox.
    • To my knowledge, this information does not need to be cited, since it's assumed that it's being cited from the game's credits or something similar. It's only really necessary if we're trying to include people uncredited for their work on the original game, or some other extraneous circumstance (At least, that's what I've been told in my experience, anyway). Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 20:48, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Release

  • Is it possible to cite more of the Blockbuster source from a third-party source instead of citing Pokemon.com? Comes off a bit promo-y with little context other than a catalogue mention of a release title.
    • Most of the detail only comes from the press release. I was able to find brief mentions of the stickers in some articles detailing Blockbuster's Snap promotions, but nothing on some of the other details, or really anything on the promotion as a whole. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 20:48, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • I think in the expansion of this, we lost the Famitsu review of Pokemon Stadium here. Probably should be placed in reception.

Reception

  • The sales section should probably be combined above with the release and sales. Maybe trim some details.
  • Sections seem to go a bit back and forth saying how they felt about the transfer pak stuff and the sound/music/announcer. perhaps re-write to talk about one talking point and then the other.
    • I still believe this is WP:OR (Misspoke with SYNTH earlier, woops) because we're drawing conclusions about different reviewers' thoughts without a source backing that up. I didn't find anything on a lot of these specific highlight points individually, so I doubt this would be feasible without jumping into that area. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 20:48, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Sequel and legacy

  • "The game was released in 2000 and 2001". A bit confusing, maybe just stick with the earliest release. The article itself can talk about variants and regional releases.
  • The ComicBook.com source on the glitch update is from Serebii, which is a site we WP:VG says to not use as a source per Wikipedia:WikiProject_Video_games/Sources. I think generally per WP:VG standards, we aren't supposed to include bit by bit updates on software patches and such without major discussion surrounding it.
    • If a reliable source is reporting on the findings, then it's assumed it's reliable information, especially if it's a site like ComicBook which has editorial standards. It's only an issue if we take it straight from Serebii's mouth. I also only included this since it was the only actual glitch that received coverage, and it isn't just the standard routine patching. I can still remove it if you feel it's superfluous though. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 20:48, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Citation style

Thaaaaat's all @Pokelego999:! Andrzejbanas (talk) 01:34, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Splitting Pokémon Stadium and Pokémon Stadium (Japanese video game)

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I have read over this article's GA review and would like to draw a community consensus on splitting the section about the original Japanese release of Pokémon Stadium and its sequel (known as Pokémon Stadium outside of Japan). The original Japanese game has many differences from the game that this article is about.

For those unfamiliar, the original Japanese game has a much smaller roster of Pokémon to battle with and is based on real-life tournaments. This game was never released outside of Japan. The second Stadium released in Japan is the same game as the English release of Pokémon Stadium.

The question is whether this separate game should have its own article on the English Wikipedia or it should be designated to a section on the English Pokémon Stadium article. Personally, I don't see it constituting its own separate article due to a shortage of content, but that doesn't necessarily make it insufficient to get its own page.

What would the community like to do here? — Paper Luigi T • C 08:35, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Paper Luigi as I mentioned in the review, I couldn't find any Reception or reviews for the subject from what I could find. The production information and gameplay also share significant overlap, and would be largely duplicative of each other in those areas. I feel a split would not be wise here. I wait on the reviewer to see how they feel this section should be handled at this time, so I would wait at the very least until the review is done before making any hasty judgements on if this should be split or not. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 21:29, 18 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Paper Luigi: and @Pokelego999: with just a quick overview, I've found quite a chunk.
  • English Review from IGN: here
  • Four page English Review from 64 Magazine here
  • Portuguese review from Gamers here
  • French review from Joypad here
  • Japanese retrospective overview from Famitsu here (especially useful for comparing it to later releases)
While researching, I think the Famitsu review in this article might not be the review for this Pokemon Stadium, per this IGN article here.
Generally speaking, it does not really matter that they are similar. They have a different production history, different reception, and quite different release despite being similar games. Kind of like how Super Mario Bros. Deluxe and Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Bros.: The Lost Levels all have different articles despite being games that at a glance, the average reader would not be able to tell apart. This would also help seperate what I still read as really confusing for two games with similar titles (i.e: Japanese game called Pocket Monsters Stadium and an American game called Pokémon Stadium. Andrzejbanas (talk) 09:15, 19 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks to the new information presented above, I'm inclined to go along with the split, which it seems is already in progress. — Paper Luigi T • C 07:08, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Paper Luigi should be finished, bar any minor changes done during Stadium's GAN. The reviews pushed me over as well; they're small, but there's enough there to justify a split given how strangely balanced the article would be with both articles as one. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 16:04, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]
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