Talk:Pocket computer

What's the difference?

What is the difference between the calculators listed in this article, and current calculators, other than the name? For example, my TI-89 can use BASIC. Why wouldn't it be a pocket computer?Ziiv (talk) 04:40, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm. Does it have an alphanumeric keyboard and text display? I think that would be a good divider between "advanced calculator" and "pocket computer", though I see from the ti 890 article that this may not be much of a difference. How do you edit BASIC programs on the TI 89 without an alphabetic keyboard? --Wtshymanski (talk) 01:56, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

The TI-89's alphanumeric characters are printed above other keys in purple, and are accessible via the alpha (i.e. shift) key. It even has a built-in text editor and IDE. It also supports assembly.Ziiv (talk) 06:13, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm again - I'm not sure there's a meaningful difference. Although when I look at the TI89 picture I think "calculator", where as something like the HP 95LX looks like a pocket "computer". What are we trying to say when we distinguish between computers and calculators? --Wtshymanski (talk) 18:57, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

If you're going by presence of a qwerty keyboard, then you should know that the TI-92 is pretty much the same as the 89, but with a keyboard.Ziiv (talk) 07:58, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, Tandy and Sharp (at least) specifically marketed these with the name "product computer" (as evidenced in the photos). And they were sold as computers rather than as calculators, despite the fact that they have a calculator mode (and after all, almost all computers come with a calculator program). - Keith D. Tyler ¶ 20:22, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Intended purpose

Wtshymanski is right in observing hat pocket computers and programmable calculators share many features and the border is more or less floating. In my recent research of programmable calculators I noticed that for example CASIO sold several basic programmable calculators under there fx range and several pocket computer under there pb range. And those devices where not all that different in technical merits - the difference was more in the customer base Casio was seeking.

And most notable here is indeed the keyboard layout. The fx series tended to have for example dedicated sin, cos, tan keys and the pb series did not.

A little less notable difference is the choice of programming language: For some pb's assembler, C and lisp was available. None of that kind of choice for the fx series. There you often found math libraries.

Of course the point is mute - pocket computer have been more or less replaced by PDAs and hand-helds and calculators have returned to there roots. And that is not necessary bad. In fact I think it is good. --Krischik ^T 15:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Programmable_calculator#Programmable_calculators_and_pocket_computers

I hope the above section helps --Krischik ^T 06:00, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

Casio FX

Just noticed that a lot of the Casio FX series is mentioned here. Only the FX series was marketed as "programmable calculators" by Casio. Should they not be moved? --Krischik ^T 15:24, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Merge

I did quite a bit of work on programable calculators and also on pocket computers and so more I work on it so more I think they are not truly different. It starts of with lack of a commonly accepted definition of a pocket computers. Possible definitions:

sold as pocket / personal computer

That would include the HP-41 which was sold a "personal computing system.

BASIC programmable

The Casio PB-2000 main language was ANSI-C and BASIC, Assembler and Lisp came as option.

calculator sized device

But any actual calculator is calculator sized.

Self contained computing environment

Also fulfilled by a lot of programable calculators like the FX-603P which included RS-232 and centronix ports. And of course the HP-41 which had more interface options then you can name.

querty keyboard

Probably the best definition - see quote on the TI-92 series The design of these relatively large calculators includes a QWERTY keyboard. Because of this keyboard, it was given the status of a "computer" rather than "calculator" by American testing facilities and cannot be used on tests such as the SAT or AP Exams, while the similar TI-89 can be.. But should / can a keyboard layout define a computer category?

three out of five

which is the very fuzzy definition we indirectly use all the wiggle words in the main page.

As far as I see it pocket computers are not relay a category of there own but a short lived sub-category of programmable calculators. Short lived because they died when those American testing facilities placed a ban on querty keyboards.

And last not least: If you expand the pocket computer article as I did with programmable calculator article then you will end up with more then 50% identical text. Similar interface option. Unstructured BASIC as language. Similar persistent memory options.

--Krischik ^T 07:45, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

I think that especially a great number of people in non-English countries, must be confused with "Pocket computer" and "Pocket PC".

They have better be arranged clearly.

-- Kookyunii (talk) 06:19, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

about Merge to article

I suggest merging this into "Electronic organizer", I think they are one thing. In addition, the term "Pocket computer" is so like "Pocket PC" and may confuse. So, writing the article with "Electronic organizer" title and mentioning that "Pocket computer" is other used term may be the better way.
But "Programmable Calculators" may supposed different things, however I acknowledge they are quite similar. If you used "Casio fx-3600" series, you might confirm. It has a specific language (just markups) without any alphabetical keyboard; you can just use a few alphabets as variable names. It's a "Programmable Scientific Calculator". But "Pocket computers" have a complete qwerty keyboard that allows user to run BASIC programming language and such things.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.183.66.153 (talk) 20:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I've taken the merge tag off. I think the two products are somewhat distinct and we can have two articles. A "Pocket PC" is apparently a Microsoft spec for a kind of pocket computer - so it's a subset of "pocket computer", not a different class of computer. --22:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Additions to List

The following pocket computers that appeared in the 1980s should probably be added to the list: Sinclair ZX-80; Cambridge Research Z88; POQET; ZEOS. The ZEOS was marketed by Zeos International, Ltd. The POQET is very similar, but I don't know who made it.--66.81.159.162 (talk) 22:32, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Anything x86 / IBM compatible like the Poqet PCs or similar devices (like the Atari Portfolio, the ZEOS or the HP LX series certainly do not belong into here, as these are so called Palmtop PCs, predecessors of so called ultra-mobile PCs (UMPCs).

Devices like the ZX80, ZX81 etc. do not belong into this category as well, as they are neither pocketable computers nor are they powered by batteries. ZX80, ZX81, C64 etc. were so called home computers. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 00:36, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Proposed definitions

If I had to make a definition, a pocket computer is user-programmable in BASIC or something other than a key-stroke memorizing language, primarily has an alphabetic keyboard (with maybe a mode to shift it to a scientific calculator keyboard overlay), and has a multiple-line (2 or more) alphabetic display. A pocket calculator is programmable in a keystroke-remembering language, has primarily a numeric/calculator keyboard with dedicated math functions like square root or trig functions, (with perhaps some stunt to enter alpha characters), and a single-line display. A TI 58 is a pocket calculator, an HP 100 is a pocket computer, a TRS 80 Model 100 is a computer but too big for a pocket. Neither one requires a desktop (or external) computer. Later products get very messy....

I think the keyboard definition is very important, even if the internal processor and memory is the same, because that greatly influences how the device is used. --Wtshymanski (talk) 22:32, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

iPods

Are iPods pocket computers? Benjamin (talk) 10:17, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Depends. "A pocket computer was a small calculator-sized handheld programmable computer." Is it small? Yes. Is it calculator-sized and handheld (got to love Wiki' prolix style) ? Yes. Is it a computer? Got lots of processors inside. But is it programmable? Not unless you are sanctioned by Apple itself. Pocket computers were user-programmable to solve user's problems, not media consumption devices. --Wtshymanski (talk) 20:18, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Idk, is a cell phone a computer? By that definition, it would depend on if it can be rooted or not, which would seem to be a division along which most people wouldn't draw the line. It's commonly said that a cell phone is a computer in your pocket. Benjamin (talk) 23:46, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Wanted: GCR encoding of Sharp 2.5"-inch floppy drives

For historical completeness, if someone has detailed information about the special Sharp GCR encoding for the CE-1600F and CE-140F 2.5"-floppy disk drives, please add it to the group-coded recording article (or the talk page). Thanks. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 14:40, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Why have we non-pocket computers here ??

Hope this isn't a dumb question, but if this article is enttitled "Pocket Computer" why do we have a chart including calculators and notebook computers? May I suggest purging this list of those entries that fail to qualify?

Allow me to put in my two cents on what should be included as a "pocket computer". Distinguishing features were 1) physically fit into a pocket 2) qwerty keyboard and 3) self-contained programming facilities. There were only a few ever made, mostly by Sharp, Casio, one by Canon. Also the HP 95LX, 100LX, and 200LX. Later HP Palmtops (as they were named) ran Windoze CE and were not user-programmable. IMO devices running Palm OS (Palm Pilots) also do not count as computers for this same reason (some Sony Clies had qwerty keypads).

The suggestion someone made about merging this article with "personal organizers" sounds bad to me. These devices only had personal info managers, and no programming ability (like Palm Pilots).

Also check out the IBM PC110 palmtop with a 486 class CPU.

As stated by another guy here, it is a most salient fact that the TI-92 series calcs and other computerlike calcs w/ keyboards were banned from SAT/ACT testing by the ASTM International and therefore should be included.Wikkileaker (talk) 10:57, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

References