Talk:Penal colony

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Untitled

Wohee! The quality of this article is low as can be. Ever heard of penal colonies called Japan and Australia? 75.139.214.136 (talk) 01:05, 5 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation

Disambiguation: "Penal Colony" is also a band: http://www.myspace.com/penalcolony

The band does not have a page on Wikipedia and therefore does not merit a notice at the top of the page, or I would have put one. Arawn 00:22, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lead section

The first paragraph of this article is rather cluttered with parentheses and long-winded sentences. Perhaps the biggest offender is the following line:

landless younger sons (who go "out into the wide world to seek their fortunes"), ne'er-do-wells and embarrassing eccentric uncles (remittance men)

I found this particularly difficult to look at. Can we replace the first line with maybe a famous example of such adventure seekers? In addition, I find the phrase "ne'er-do-wells" to be somewhat archaic. I don't know what a remittance man is, but maybe we should replace "embarrassing eccentric uncles" with "remittance men", and link it to a new article. --Misfit 12:21 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I added some explanation. - Patrick 13:12 27 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Indentured servitude as punishment?

I'm not saying this isn't true, but while I remember hearing about indentured servants in American history, I always thought that they CHOSE to come to the colonies; it was my understanding that these people became indentured servants as a way of paying for the trip. Does anyone know for sure?

If it is true, could someone post a link to more information about this? Thanks.

--- Some chose, some had authorities or sentencing judges choose for them. See for example http://home.clara.net/iainkerr/kerr/indenture.htm

Daniel Defoe gave, I believe, a fictional account of criminal servitude in Virginia in Moll Flanders.

I imagine that criminal transportation becomes a taboo subject for patriotic North Americans (compare Australians, who know of the practice too well to hide it). I recall an estimate that by 1776, approximately 75% of the population of the 13 colonies could claim an indentured ancestor of one sort or another. 219.88.205.91 11:41, 17 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Edits by Fastifex

Fastifex has repeatedly added material to this page that has been removed by other editors (see [1], [2], [3]). A link to search IMDB for "penal colony" is completely pointless; and what on Earth has a list of statesmen in Ecuador got to do with penal colonies?

He also keeps adding "slave-type" to penal labor in the paragraph about Russian penal colonies. As I commented last time that I removed this, if he wants to discuss penal labor as being slave-type, he should do so on penal labor.

This time around I spotted and removed the following phrase after "Norfolk Island":

which became the flogging hell meant to deter even the most hardened criminals- see cat o' nine tails)

This is yet another example of Fastifex adding unrelated BDSM content to articles (see for example the history of "wooden spoon"). — Hex (❝?!❞) 14:17, 3 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Disguised vandalism

Someone somewhere inserted a mention that all of the prisoners at the colony in Ghana died of priapism. This is obviously a joke - someone in a 'penal' colony dying of an engorged penis? Har har. Doesn't belong on Wiki. I also removed some parts that made no sense and added a citation tag for the bit about Irish prisoners. Someone who cares more than me can do the research and add the appropriate footnote. Wtbe7560 14:36, 20 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe this person got a bit confused, and thought we were talking about penile colonies? ... :~} CleanUpAisle7 (talk) 09:46, 23 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More "In fiction" movies

No Escape (Escape from Absolom) 1994

Escape from New York 1981

Escape from LA 1996

89.138.221.2 (talk) 17:50, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There is also Earth_2_(TV_series)

--206.162.157.3 (talk) 21:53, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've added Botony Bay by Charles Nordhoff and James Norman Hall to the books section. Ayliana (talk) 20:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a reason No Escape, Escape from New York, and Escape from L.A. are not listed? The plots of these films revolve around a penal colony. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.75.83.78 (talk) 02:27, 31 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism to Generalities Section

I'm new to contributing to Wikipeida but under generalities appear the following:

"In fact, some people (especially the poor, following a similar social logic as could see them domestically 'employed' in a poorhouse) were sentenced for trivial or dubious offenses to generate cheap labor."

Which perhaps should appear as :

Some people who might be employed in a 'poorhouse' anyways, were sentenced for trivial or dubious offenses to generate cheap labor.

I took out the 'In fact', since its needless in my opinion, Wikipedia is facts! And the parenthesis which I believe in most cases show poor writing skills.

Also does anyone believe that this claim deserves a citation? I would like to see something to at least show me that this might have happened. Maybe it should appear:

Although debatable, some people who might be employed in a 'poorhouse' anyways, were sentenced for trivial or dubious offenses to generate cheap labor.

Let me know if I'm on the right track here!

Jdrumstik (talk) 03:33, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely needs a citation or something! The article is basically claiming that people were sent to penal colonies for no reason but to provide cheap labour. Surely this statement has to be backed up. Personally, I'm not sure this sentence is accurate, and I thought it was worded in an emotive way.

And what is this "social logic" regarding the poor? => "In fact, some people (especially the poor, following a similar social logic as could see them domestically 'employed' in a poorhouse) were sentenced for trivial or dubious offenses to generate cheap labor."

Sebastian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.186.4 (talk) 00:35, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Penal Colonies

What U S Colony was founded as a home for British Prisoners?76.192.0.213 (talk) 21:41, 3 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No specific US territory was used specifically as a penal colony. Convicts were transported to all 13 colonies and sold in auction, much like the slaves from africa. Ayliana (talk) 20:36, 12 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I understand that Maryland at least was a destination for transported prisoners in the early days of colonisationHmcst1 (talk) 08:18, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Two strange links under "Non-fiction"

See my edit: http://en.wiki.x.io/w/index.php?title=Penal_colony&diff=558354761&oldid=558194322

I tried to fix. Not sure it's good enough.. but better? Don't know what happened there before or how to fix it further (or why there is a "?" when they seem to be the same). comp.arch (talk) 22:22, 4 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Non-fiction"

The section header "Non-fiction" is misleading. It causes the reader to think that all the actually existing penal colonies listed before it are fictional. JIP | Talk 06:03, 18 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Distinction needed

You need to distinguish between a penal colony and a prison within a colony or foreign possession. There is a claim here that Guantanamo Bay is a penal colony. I have to say that is a huge stretch. The bulk of the Guantanamo Bay Naval Base is not the prison within it, any more than Indiana is not Terre Haute. It needs an external citation otherwise it is merely an opinion of the editor . Do I need to cite WP:NOR. I will remove it if not supported.Hmcst1 (talk) 08:25, 16 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I'm asking for a citation on the nugget about the Falkland Islands under Argentine rule because the Falkland Islands page has no mention of a penal colony Hmcst1 (talk) 20:29, 14 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fiction

The "In fiction" section is over-sized in relation to the rest of the article, and adds little other than "here's an unsourced list where a fictional penal colony is mentioned, no matter how trivially". It needs drastically cut back, to better examples where a penal colony plays a significant role in the plot, and needs cites to sources. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 17:46, 19 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Scotland an independent nation

Scotland is still an independent Kingdom during the height of penal transportation to the new world in the 1600's, the Battle of Dunbar is an example of Scottish prisoners of war not a people in rebellion of the English parliament being used as penal transportation.

Both nations have separate parliaments and differing forms of Protestantism although they may share a monarch from the Scottish house of Stewart the parliaments acted independently of each other.

Therefore Scotland cannot 'rebel' against England because England and the English parliament does have legal jurisdiction over Scotland nor do they have military control.

British or Britain cannot be used as a term for penal transportation pre-1707 in the Kingdom of England as the Kingdom of Great Britain does not exist and if it appears in articles they are inaccurate terms.

Therefore with regards to Scottish penal transportation prisoner of war is a more accurate term than rebel.

Here's a source from the BBC clearly explaining that Scotland has been an independent nation from when it unified in the 1000's up to 1707, whereby the Kingdom of Great Britain comes into existence and a parliament of Great Britain also comes into existence.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/scotland/history/scotland_united/

Wiki Education assignment: ARCN 211 Material Histories of Labor

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 4 January 2023 and 15 March 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): DayWalker433, Cuttera24 (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by Cuttera24 (talk) 15:45, 24 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Russia

On today's main page, in the section on Alexei Navalny, it listed "penal colony" instead of prison, gulag, or other term. I found it odd that this page then didn't have a section on Russian prisons. I'm wondering if we should add more of that content here, or if the editors of the main page should have chosen a more appropriate term. —Zujine|talk 17:21, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]