Talk:OneTaste

Rebranding as The Eros Project

The Eros Platform feature classes and events hosted by both Nicole Daedone and Rachael Cherwitz on their site. Some of their logos incorporate the Onetaste branding, although they appear to be trying to scrub those. This is pretty plainly the same organization with slightly altered branding. Rectitudo (talk) 01:29, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

You have to have reliable sources that say so. You cannot determine this yourself. Skyerise (talk) 02:53, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

@Skyerise They plainly state on their own page that they're "by Onetaste". You don't get any more reliable than that. 162.192.2.81 (talk) 03:19, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

You just don't get it. We need third-party sourcing because they could be lying. Skyerise (talk) 03:32, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

Also, a new registered business under a different name is a distinct topic, even if run by some of the same people. If it is notable, a new article should be written about it from third-party sources. If that can't be done, then it's not notable and should not be coatracked onto another article. Skyerise (talk) 11:48, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

OneTaste appears to have rebranded as "The Institute of Om". To that point, search for "Institute" in these citations:

• "Real Story of 'Orgasm Inc: The Story of One Taste' Director Interview". Netflix Tudum. 2022-11-02. Retrieved 2024-07-29.
• Harrison, Ellie (2022-11-04). "The bizarre story behind Netflix's documentary on orgasmic meditation group OneTaste". The Independent. Retrieved 2024-07-29.
• Hahn, Jason (2022-11-04). "Lawsuit Seeks to Block Release of Netflix Doc About 'Orgasmic Meditation' Group OneTaste". Peoplemag. Retrieved 2024-07-29.
• Mitchell, Molli (2022-11-08). "What happened to OneTaste? Inside female orgasm company". Newsweek. Retrieved 2024-07-29.
• Manno, Adam (2022-12-23). "Ex-OneTaste Members Drop Lawsuit Against Netflix Over 'Orgasm Inc' Documentary". The Daily Beast. Retrieved 2024-07-29.
• Yossman, K.J. (2023-01-26). "'Sexual Wellness' Company Founder Loses Libel Bid Against BBC Over Podcast". Variety. Retrieved 2024-07-29.
• Scarcella, Mike (2023-09-21). "Lawyers for 'orgasmic meditation' company founder refute prosecutors' ethics concerns". Reuters. Retrieved 2024-07-29.
• Agnew, Megan (2024-01-28). "Inside OneTaste: my stay at Nicole Daedone's 'orgasm commune'". The Times & The Sunday Times. Retrieved 2024-07-29.

@Skyerise, Rectitudo, and ABF992: Would one of you please take care of incorporating this into the article? I have plenty of other WikiWork taking priority. Peaceray (talk) 18:06, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Peaceray: That would not be appropriate. My understanding is that it is a new incorporation with different owners. That would require a new article. If the new company is notable, start an article, but we don't coatrack two separate companies into the same article. Skyerise (talk) 20:50, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

I disagree. First, I never suggested that we coatrack two separate companies into the same article.

Second, among the parameters for {{Infobox company}} is successor. Although the examples include Wikilinks, there is no notability requirement for this field. Indeed, two of the examples for the successor parameter themselves would be red links: The People's Corporation of Judea & Splitters, Inc..

I think that is clear that The Institute of Om is a successor company. It is my understanding from what I have read about this years ago that others bought Dedone's controlling interest of One Taste, so of course there would be different owners. Also, the citations that I listed above have statements that clearly describe the relationship between OneTaste & The Institute of Om as rebranded version, renamed itself as, renamed itself as, is still operating as, & Institute of OM, which the government said is a OneTaste-affiliated entity.

It does not seem to be about having reliable sources. I am unaware of any guideline or policy that prohibits mentioning a non-notable company within an article. Which policy or guideline are you basing you opposition to naming the successor company?

I think that failing to even mention The Institute of Om is a successor is a disservice to the reader. Peaceray (talk) 22:13, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

@Peaceray: But it is legally not a successor. It is a completely new business registration with different owners than OneTaste had. And that means the new owners could take legal action against Wikipedia if we include it here. Wikipedia is not here to protect people from their own stupidity. An article has a topic, and especially when that topic is controversial and involves legal actions, it's just not a good idea to do what you propose doing. There are two different legal entities; the new one is not legally a continuation of the other. Unless you can source transfer of assets and direct or documented indirect ownership of the Institute by the original owners of OneTaste, you are treading on serious BLP issues here. Skyerise (talk) 22:20, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

This will have to go on the back burner for me for now. I have more timely things to which I must attend. I am sure anyone who goes down the rabbit hole can find relevant information for mentioning the institute in the article. Peaceray (talk) 23:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Except that that would be original research. Start an article on the new company if it is notable. If it's not, it doesn't get included here either. Skyerise (talk) 23:08, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

You should review my edit history before you imply that I would use WP:OR. I know how to use reliable sources & I know how to avoid (& revert) original research & have a pretty good understanding of BLP, although most of my edits in that regard are reversions of unsourced or improperly source material. I am unaware, however, of any extension to BLP to corporate personhood, although even with that WP:V is paramount. Peaceray (talk) 04:39, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

@Peaceray: This isn't about corporate personhood. It's about the actual living people who are the registered owners of the new business; you would basicaly be leveling near-criminal accusations against these owners, even though they were not the owners of OneTaste, haven't been charged with any crimes, or individually associated by sources with OneTaste. One of the articles linked as a source clearly stated that it is a new business with new owners; I looked up the registration, and that is true. We don't do either notability by association or guilt by association here. Skyerise (talk) 09:33, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

To clarify further: you'd need sources that verify that the owners of the new company were actually previously affiliated with OneTaste. What has more likely happened is that OneTaste had a fire sale to raise money for their legal defense and that they sold the copyrights to their training material to individuals that had nothing to do with OneTaste, and that those individuals formed a company and are trying to make a go at marketing that material. This is an extremely common scenario after a company is shuttered by the FBI. You'd need much stronger sources with details about the personal involvement of the new owners with the previous company, and you don't have that. The new company is an LLC: it's not publicly traded or owned by shareholders. It is owned by a single individual or a small partnership. Corporate personhood doesn't come into this. Skyerise (talk) 10:38, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

This has gotten way too aggressive for me and unlike other editors, I don't have that much time on my hands. I just want to see what happens after January. Rectitudo (talk) 04:39, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

ATTN: WikiProject Organizations & WikiProject Sexology and sexuality

Please give this an updated Class. ORES has evaluated this as a B class article. As an involved editor, it would be inappropriate for me to give it a higher rating than its current Start class. Peaceray (talk) 20:10, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

Proposed changes

for the fact this “OneTaste had over 35,000 people attend its educational events, and free online OM educational videos attracted tens of millions of views” here are the sources [https://nypost.com/2024/07/03/us-news/feds-are-criminalizing-sex-in-nyc-case-against-alleged-orgasm-cult-onetaste-lawyers/ and https://www.newsweek.com/nicole-daedone-now-today-oneteaste-founder-1757507]

for the fact this “This began a period of rapid expansion and further maturity of the business, with revenues often growing 50% year over year or more, peaking at $12,000,000 per year in 2017” here are the sources [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-18/the-dark-side-of-onetaste-the-orgasmic-meditation-company  and https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/06/07/founder-of-sexual-wellness-startup-onetaste-charged-with-exploiting-abuse-victims/]

for the fact this “and a plethora of scientific research in the last few years supports claims of the practice improving connection, focus and other long term brain changes.” Here are the sources [https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroimaging/articles/10.3389/fnimg.2024.1368537/full and https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0167876022001544]

for the fact this” The body of research on Orgasmic Meditation highlights its potential benefits across various domains, including neurophysiological changes, emotional well-being, trauma recovery, and the facilitation of mystical experiences.” Here are the sources [https://www.healthline.com/health/orgasmic-meditation-101#benefits , https://www.news-medical.net/news/20211111/Orgasmic-meditation-produces-a-distinctive-pattern-of-brain-function-study-finds.aspx and https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2021.708973/full]

for the fact this  “As of January 2025, 55,000 incarcerated participants across the country had participated in the course, and Free Food had served over 98,000 farm-to-table nourishing meals with dignity” here are the source [https://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/art-of-soulmaking-program-sjbn/ and https://nochildgoeshungry.net/2023/06/21/no-child-goes-hungry-supports-unconditional-freedom-with-a-2000-grant/]

for the fact this  “the use of allegedly fabricated journals as the foundation for the Netflix documentary has significantly damaged their clients’ reputations and played a key role in driving the criminal case against Daedone and Cherwitz.” Here are the source this [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/onetaste-founder-nicole-daedone-says-plans-testify-trial-rcna179947 and https://nypost.com/2024/07/03/us-news/feds-are-criminalizing-sex-in-nyc-case-against-alleged-orgasm-cult-onetaste-lawyers/]

For the fact this “Digital forensic analysis uncovered that these journals were created and heavily edited in 2022, despite claims they were contemporaneous to events in 2015” here is a source [https://www.law360.com/pulse/articles/2268316/onetaste-execs-say-former-member-s-j ournals-fabricated].

Jackersony (talk) 07:19, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

I did not follow the news about OneTaste, but I know that Tantric/free love cults easily degenerate into breaching the law. So, the criminal investigation does not come as a surprise to me. tgeorgescu (talk) 09:17, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

My take on these statements:
1. New York Post is considered generally unreliable (see WP:RSP) so we should not use that source. Newsweek is also generally unreliable, although this particular page is supposedly just reporting on what a documentary says. We should probably cite the documentary rather than Newsweek. However I have not viewed the documentary to confirm that Newsweek is accurately reporting what is said in it, nor that the documentary itself is reliable.

2. The Bloomberg article says "It says it made $12 million in revenue in 2017" and the Mercury News article says "The company said it made $12 million in revenue in 2017." In both cases the source is quoting a claim by the company, so we should frame what we say about the revenue as a claim by the company, not as a fact. I don't see anything about "50% year over year" in either article, so that should be removed.

3. This is a WP:MEDRS claim, so we need high quality secondary sources to support it. The first source seems to be WP:PRIMARY, and furthermore it is talking about meditation in general, not about "orgasmic meditation". The second source is also primary. I would say this statement does not have adequate sourcing, especially the part about "a plethora of scientific research". To make that claim, a source would need to use the "plethora" wording or something similar.

4. This is also a WP:MEDRS claim. The first source, healthline, is an unreliable source and is therefore useless; see Special:PermanentLink/1170426936#Healthline: deprecate or blacklist? The second source, news-medical.net, is basically reporting on a primary source study, and is probably not usable for a MEDRS claim. The third source, frontiersin.org, seems to be a primary source. I would say the sourcing is not adequate for this claim.

5. Neither of the sources mentions the number "55,000" nor "98,000", so I think the bulk of this statement is not supported by sources. The whole paragraph is also written in a pretty non-neutral tone.

6. The first source does not use the words "fabricated" or "journal", and all the statements critical of the indictment are quotes from the founder or her attorney, so the statement is absolutely not supported by this source. The second source, nypost, is generally unreliable so I didn't bother to look at it.

7. I don't have an account to access the complete law360 article, but the headline says "OneTaste Execs Say Former Member's Journals Fabricated". If the article is simply reporting a claim by the defendants, we cannot make the claim as a fact, but must attribute it as a statement by the defendants.

Finally, please do not reinstate this material to the article before this discussion reaches consensus. I have reverted your changes to the article again until this discussion is complete. CodeTalker (talk) 18:41, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

1  I thought New York Post was solid reference

2 I used this sentence “with revenues often growing 50% year over year or more,” to describe the rapid expansion. So if its sound is promotional, it will be removed

3 and 4

I have additional resource for that [https://f1000research.com/articles/11-1015/v2#referee-response-346500 , https://www.hindustantimes.com/lifestyle/health/orgasmic-meditation-a-unique-spiritual-practice-produces-distinctive-brain-function-pattern-study-101636769026565.html and https://iomfoundation.org/8-key-findings-on-orgasmic-meditation/]

5 I got those data from this resource [https://unconditionalfreedom.org/impact/]

6 I agree on this

7 here it is additional cite to that [https://www.sfexaminer.com/marketplace/expert-analysis-reveals-scientific-evidence-of-journal-manipulation-in-onetaste-case/article_6fcccba2-a771-11ef-b749-bb8cad52f9fb.html] Jackersony (talk) 19:47, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

2. It's not so much that it appears promotional, it's that it's a specific number that doesn't seem to have a source. Where did you get that number?

3&4. The Hindustani Times article seems to be reporting on the same primary source as the news-medical.net article. While they are both secondary, they don't seem to be doing any analysis, just repeating what the primary source says. This seems marginal to me, but perhaps other editors can weigh in. I don't know if iomfoundation.org is a reliable source. It's probably the best of the sources for these MEDRS claims, but I'd like to hear what other editors think.

5. Since this is a claim by the organization itself and not an independent source, it should be attributed to them, like "Unconditional Freedom says that 55,000 incarcerated participants ...". I'd also like to see the wording be more neutral. However, I'm not sure that information about Unconditional Freedom is really relevant to this article, if it is an independent organization whose only connection is it was founded by the OneTaste founder.

7. This is a good source, but it should be qualified rather than stated as fact: "Linguistics expert Robert Leonard has testified that his analysis suggests that these journals were created ..." CodeTalker (talk) 20:56, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

3&4. what about this one https://f1000research.com/articles/11-1015/v2#referee-response-346500

5. Unconditional freedom is non-profit organization. that is why i gathered the data from it. Jackersony (talk) 06:17, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

Let me rewrite, correct, and summarize it.

For the fact this “OneTaste had over 35,000 people attend its educational events, and free online OM educational videos attracted lots of  views“ sources [https://www.womenshealthmag.com/life/a41868591/orgasm-inc-onetaste-true-story/ and    https://fox59.com/business/press-releases/ein-presswire/613561456/cherwitz-granted-permission-to-join-defamation-suit-against-bbc-over-reckless-podcast-about-wellness-company-onetaste/]

for the fact this “This began a period of rapid expansion and further maturity of the business, peaking at $12,000,000 per year in 2017” sources [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-18/the-dark-side-of-onetaste-the-orgasmic-meditation-company and https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/06/07/founder-of-sexual-wellness-startup-onetaste-charged-with-exploiting-abuse-victims/]

For the fact this “Digital forensic analysis uncovered that these journals were created and heavily edited in 2022, despite claims they were contemporaneous to events in 2015” here is a source  [https://www.sfexaminer.com/marketplace/expert-analysis-reveals-scientific-evidence-of-journal-manipulation-in-onetaste-case/article_6fcccba2-a771-11ef-b749-bb8cad52f9fb.html]

For the fact this  OneTaste and independent affiliates were operating multiple cities around the United States and and Western Europe. sources [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-18/the-dark-side-of-onetaste-the-orgasmic-meditation-company and https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/onetaste-founder-and-former-head-sales-indicted-forced-labor-conspiracy]

for the fact this” The body of research on Orgasmic Meditation highlights its potential benefits across various domains, including neurophysiological changes, emotional well-being, trauma recovery, and the facilitation of mystical experiences.” Sources [https://f1000research.com/articles/11-1015/v2#referee-response-346500 and  https://iomfoundation.org/8-key-findings-on-orgasmic-meditation/]

For the fact this “Unconditional Freedom focuses on rehumanization for marginalized communities, such as its Art of Soulmaking program that guides incarcerated individuals through meditation and self-inquiry practices that can transform the experience of prison to a monastic one, or the Free Food program that creates a free sit down restaurant for the homeless.” Source [https://www.legalreader.com/unconditional-freedom-at-home-and-in-the-world/]

For the fact this “Attorneys for OneTaste assert that the use of allegedly fabricated journals as the foundation for the Netflix documentary has significantly damaged their clients’ reputations and played a key role in driving the criminal case against Daedone and Cherwitz.” Source [https://www.thedailybeast.com/former-onetaste-teacher-slams-lawsuit-attempting-to-stop-release-of-netflix-documentary-orgasm-inc/] Jackersony (talk) 19:40, 21 January 2025 (UTC)

and this is the last correction

For the fact this “Unconditional Freedom focuses on rehumanization for marginalized communities, such as its Art of Soulmaking program that guides incarcerated individuals through meditation and self-inquiry practices that can transform the experience of prison to a monastic one, or the Free Food program that creates a free sit down restaurant for the homeless.” Source [https://www.legalreader.com/unconditional-freedom-at-home-and-in-the-world/, https://www.guidestar.org/profile/91-2158747]

For the fact this "The body of research on Orgasmic Meditation highlights its potential benefits across various domains, including brain function, autonomic nervous system, regulates body functions." source [https://www.jefferson.edu/about/news-and-events/2021/11/brain-changes-during-a-unique-spiritual-practice-called-orgasmic-meditation.html]

for the fact this "In 2012, a collective decision was made by the leadership and community to bring the practices and workshops to the broader world. This began a period of rapid expansion and further maturity of the business, peaking at $12,000,000 per year in 2017." sources [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-18/the-dark-side-of-onetaste-the-orgasmic-meditation-company and https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/06/07/founder-of-sexual-wellness-startup-onetaste-charged-with-exploiting-abuse-victims/]

for the fact this "OneTaste and independent affiliates were operating in multiple cities around the United States and Western Europe." sources [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-06-18/the-dark-side-of-onetaste-the-orgasmic-meditation-company and https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/onetaste-founder-and-former-head-sales-indicted-forced-labor-conspiracy]

for the fact this "It had over 35,000 people attend its educational events, and free online OM educational videos attracted lots of views." sources [https://www.womenshealthmag.com/life/a41868591/orgasm-inc-onetaste-true-story/ and https://fox59.com/business/press-releases/ein-presswire/613561456/cherwitz-granted-permission-to-join-defamation-suit-against-bbc-over-reckless-podcast-about-wellness-company-onetaste/] Jackersony (talk) 14:05, 22 January 2025 (UTC)