Talk:Albania during the Balkan Wars

Where was the decision to move the article made?

The discussion is still open on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Geopolitical ethnic and religious conflicts#More opinions needed. Was there a parallel discussion and subsequent decision made on another noticeboard or location? If so, shouldn't the discussion on the noticeboard be closed in some fashion before the move?

Also, I do not see an entry in the contested moves section of the Wikipedia:Requested moves page. Is the person who made the move an administrator? The person who appears to have made the move, User:Villick, had participated in the debate and had voted so should know it would be contested which, while I may be naive in this matter, brings up a Wikipedia:Administrators#Involved admins concern. What protocol led to the move while at least one discussion was still open? I don't know why people are being asked to offer opinions in an "official" discussion when the decision has already been made.

If there is some Wiki policy that I am unaware of, please inform me. Veriss (talk) 17:28, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

As I remember I made the move proposal [[1]] and initiated the discussion. I've opened a requested move, which was on the process disrupted by a number of editors that were sockpuppetting (fortunately this wasn't enough to create a chaos). Since the arguments (and the votes) by the one side are overwhelming there is no problem for the move. Fortunately Villik helped to solve this mess without making things any more hot.Alexikoua (talk) 18:51, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm reverting back to the previous title. There was no decision to move it and Villick shouldn't have done such a move.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 19:50, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Zjarri: although there is a more than 2:1 majority in this case your still creating a chaos in this page. Please try to respect a long debated and finally established procedure. Also notice that not a single non-Balkan editor ever voted for the 'occupation' title, especially at the first vote.Alexikoua (talk) 20:06, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Admin note -- Ok, the talk page and article are now at the same name, and the page is move-locked indefinitely at the current title. If you want it moved elsewhere, carry out the Requested move process again.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:20, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Greek navy and ottoman army and gendarms controled Valona and Berat, not provisional government

"On the other hand the Albanian Declaration of Independence, at November 1912, and the formation of the provisional Government of Albanian managed to control only part of central Albania that period, including Vlorë and Berat."

Here you can find meomoirs of Ismail Qemali, who organized declaring of independence. At page 371 it is written that there were local Ottoman "gendarmes" that first chased him and then were instructed to honour him. Even Qemali on page 374 says that Ottoman army still control parts of territory that was declared to be independent. If somebody look at the map of occupied territories of Ottoman empire in FBW it is clear that it can be only Valona and Berat. On the same page (374) Qemali stress that after independence was declared, Greek navy blocked Valona port and fired guns bombing the Valona and keeping it cut from the rest of the world not been able to use even telegraph. Therefore, the above mentioned statement that people that declared independence "controled part of central Albania that includes Vlore and Berat" after they declared independence is not completely right, at least not untill ceasfire was signed in December. This is very important point, because if Qemali himself admit that he did not have control of territory that was declared as independent from Ottoman empire, readers could be misled by above mentioned text. Only after London peace treaty was signed in May 1913. Ottoman empire retreated fully from the Valona and Berat, not because Qemali and his government put it under control, but because London treaty was signed. Based on above mentioned I propose to delete above mentioned sentence. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 19:58, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

You may be right on this. But feel free to make the appropriate corrections/additions (properly referenced).Alexikoua (talk) 20:39, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Antidiskrimator can you at least once get a proper reliable source that says what you want to add, without having to make or deductions about them?--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 22:38, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

I clearly wrote:"I propose to delete above mentioned sentence". I do not want to add anything. I proposed deletion based on Qemali memoairs. I know that he was not reliable and credible since he was so much involved in events. If he himself, admit that provisional government had no control, then it can be reliable source for deletion.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:43, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Essad Pasha Toptani during the Balkan Wars

Resolved

"Albanian politician Esad Pashë Toptani collaborated with Serbian government during the occupation. He created a puppet state based in Durrës, called the Republic of Central Albania and fought against the Provisional Government of Albania."

Somebody made mistake with chronology in those two sentences because during the Balkan Wars Essad Pasha Toptani was most of the time (six months) fighting against Serbian and Montenegrin army during Siege of Shkoder which resulted with thousands Serbian and Montenegrin casualties and losses. Also, Republic of Central Albania was established in October 1913, which was after Balkan Wars.

Based on above explained mistake with chronology I propose to delete above two sentences.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 14:21, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

When did Army of the Kingdom of Serbia entered "Ottoman territory inhabited by ethnic Albanians"

Resolved

The Serb army first entered Ottoman territory inhabited by ethnic Albanians in November 1912 as part of its campaign in the then-ongoing First Balkan War.

The above sentence is incorrect and referenced source does not contain that information at all. Army of the Kingdom of Serbia started its operations and entered "Ottoman territory inhabited by ethnic Albanians" in October like it is written in below sentence extracted from the Battle of Kumanovo article.

"On 21 October the entire Third Army began its advance and on 22 October, without serious resistance, entered Priština".(Borislav Ratković, Mitar Đurišić, Savo Skoko, Srbija i Crna Gora u Balkanskim ratovima 1912-1913, Belgrade: BIGZ, 1972, pages 50-62.)

Therefore I will change the above mentioned incorrect sentence and add the correct referenced source for it.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:37, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Before everything

what about population of Albania in 1912. Do you know that almost 50% of albanian population of that time wasnt of Shqip ethnic background? why we have all possible docuuments about national background of population in Greece, Bulgaria, Montenegro and Serbia in that time, and about Albania nothing?!? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.245.70.7 (talk) 21:56, 23 February 2014 (UTC) Maybe you should know that expression "albanian" is not ethnic term, it is name for everey inhabitant of land of Alba(nia): Greeks, Shqipi, Serbs and Vlachis, obviously you dont. This is not politics, this should be enyclopedia!--109.245.70.7 (talk) 22:02, 23 February 2014 (UTC) In the end, in last census in Albania (in 2011 i think), over 560,000 was in line "people which doesnt want to say their ethnic background"!--109.245.70.7 (talk) 22:06, 23 February 2014 (UTC)