Talk:National Press Monument

National Press Monument has been listed as one of the Social sciences and society good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: January 12, 2014. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from National Press Monument appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 18 December 2013 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the building which houses the National Press Monument (pictured) was once an office of the Indonesian Red Cross Society?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2013/December. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/National Press Monument.

Wikipedia

GA Review

Article Passed GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:National Press Monument/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ТимофейЛееСуда (talk · contribs) 15:37, 11 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I will be reviewing this article. As this is my first such review in the process of being a GA Recruit, Christine (Figureskatingfan) who is my recruiter, will be assisting. Thank you for your patience. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 15:37, 11 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Review

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

The article is in good shape; I've only found a few minor items.

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
There are a few items that need some assistance. See below in the specific prose review.

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
I find no glaring issue at this time.
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section:

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

C. No original research:
References look good.
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Looks good
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
No bias.
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Only one major editor.
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
I'm not 100% on Freedom of Panorama laws, so I simply want clarification that the image of the museum does not violate commons:COM:FoP#Indonesia.

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
The only caption that I find issue with is the caption in the infobox. As it stands, it is really not necessary. If you want a caption, I would include one similar to: "The entrance to the museum (or monument) including two public boards with the latest editions of local newspapers." Just my opinion.
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
Almost there. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 01:36, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Prose Review

Lead

The monument consists of an old society building, constructed in 1918, and several subsequent expansions; the complex is listed as a Cultural Property of Indonesia. This seems like a run-on sentence. I would split it into two separate sentences at the semicolon.

Agree, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Its facilities include a multimedia room, free-to-read newspapers, and a library. The sentence does not need the word its. Should read: "Facilities include..."

Agree, done. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

History

The building in which the National Press Monument is now housed was constructed sometime in 1918... Do you know more specifically when the building was constructed? If not I would remove the word "sometime."

Agree, removed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the final paragraph of the History section, David Kristian mentions that the museum is rarely visited. Is this prior to 2013? In the lead it says the museum was visited over 26,000 times and again at the end of this paragraph. That equates to about 500 visits per week. That may not be a huge number, but for a focused, single-topic museum, that does not seem "rarely visited."

Have massaged the prose. Last I checked, in 2012 its target was about 10,000 visitors, so that's a two-fold increase in a year (source). It appears that most of their visitors come during specific exhibitions, but I don't have a source which breaks down the timing. When I went it was pretty darn empty... of course, I showed up just as it opened. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Since you can source it, I would include that figure. Its a major jump from 2012 to 2013, and it is most definitely important enough to include. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 04:40, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Have included it, obliquely. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Perfect! -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 05:06, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Description

I do not understand why this section and the Facilities section are separate. They each talk about specific parts of the facilities. I propose they should be merged unless there is a specific reason to not.

Okay. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Holdings

The museum holds over a million newspapers and magazines from both before and after the Indonesian National Revolution... Throughout this section you show this to be true, but the notability of this museum is not that it has more current holdings. I would prefer changing "both before and after" to "including content from prior to."

I'm not understanding you on this one. "Content" would be actual articles. The newspapers as physical entities would not be content. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You're right; content is a poor choice of word. Saying before and after something to me seems a little odd. It also leaves out the "during" which I would think be an important period in the history of the press. It read better to say "... from prior to the Indonesian National Revolution to current covering various parts of the Indonesian archipelago." -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 04:34, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Good point about the Revolution. How's this? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Even better than I could've thought up! Good job. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 05:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The museum also holds various artefacts which belonged to journalists from period to period. Remove "from period to period" as its redundant. I would recommend adding notable before journalists.

How is it redundant, and what is it redundant to? Bakrie Soeriatmadja was active in the 1920s, Hendro Subroto was active through the 70s and 80s, Udin was killed in 1995, etc. We could go with "pre- and post-colonial Indonesia", if you prefer. Notable is a weasel word, which I try to avoid. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is redundant to itself. Of course it holds artefacts from period to period, when else would it hold artefacts from? This use of the word period is used like "period of time", so if you replaced period with an actual period of time, it would be saying: it holds artefacts from one year to another year. Maybe a better way to say it would be: "...holds various artefacts which belonged to journalists from multiple historical periods." -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 04:34, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I reworked it after posting the above. How's this? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:03, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Seems good. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 05:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Facilities

See above Description section.

References and works cited

Are Video Profil Monumen Pers Nasional [Video Profile of the National Press Monument] (in Indonesian). Jakarta: Ministry of Communications and Information. 2013. and Profil Monumen Pers Nasional 2013 [Profile of the National Press Monument, 2013] (brochure) (in Indonesian), Ministry of Communications and Information, 2013. the same source? They seem extremely similar. (The second is not attached to any specific references)

No, one is a video and one is a brochure. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the clarification; I just wanted to make sure, as they are formatted so similar. Also, as I cannot speak, read or write in Indonesian, I'll WP:AGF on the content of those sources. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 04:37, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is after my first read-through. I plan a second read after these points have been addressed. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 01:36, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for reviewing. Regarding image of the museum, copyright in Indonesia on buildings lasts for 50 years after the death of the author, or 50 years after realization for an anonymous or group work. As the life span of Mas Abu Kasan Atmodirono does not seem to be known (not a rare occurrence in pre-Independence Indonesia), I'm pretty sure this building fell out of copyright under current laws in 1968; he would have had to live until 1965 or later for this building to still be in copyright in Indonesia. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:02, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the clarification. I once again just wanted to verify on the image. I assumed there was nothing wrong with the image copyright, as if there would have been major question, it would have been brought up in the WP:FPC process. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 04:37, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Second read

Most everything above seems to be addressed and I once again appreciate your patience in this review. As I stated in the beginning of this review, I am "in training" and my mentor/recruiter Christine is working with me on this. She found a few issues that I did not see on my first read through that should be addressed:

Although the lead is long enough, it does not give a full overview of the article per MOS:INTRO. A few more sentences covering the whole article should be included.

That is rather unclear... what key content is missing from the lede? Length on its own is not a representation of coverage (see Adam Levine for an example of what I mean). I've added a bit, but I do think the current lede already touches on the main points in the article. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am not not well versed enough to give you the best answer. My mentors exact words were "The lead is long enough, but it doesn't give an overview of the article; see MOS:INTRO. I suggest that you direct the editor to add a few sentences so that it does so." My reason for bringing it up is that the lead covers the facility and the holdings, but does not touch on the history save for saying that it was built in 1918. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 05:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, I've added a clause saying "1978, more than 20 years after it was first proposed," as well as the fact about the Reporters Association of Indonesia. The other two uses are not pertinent to the complex's current use as a museum. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:21, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There is not a standard format for which headline is better when it comes to description or facilities. My mentor and I prefer facilities, but if your preference is description, I'm happy with it staying.

I've stuck with "Description" for all my museum articles, as the title "facilities" does not include the location or general architecture of a museum. (i.e. how is "located at 59 Gajah Mada Street in Surakarta, Central Java" a facility?) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Personal preference, IMHO the location of the facility is part of knowing about the facility in that if you take the same building and put it in a different location, the facility is completely different. Since you keep all of your articles with the header description, I agree with you that it should stay as such, for the sake of consistency. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 05:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

In the holdings section, part of the second sentence on the last paragraph does not make sense and may have an error: "...a shirt in which Hendro Subroto was show while covering the Indonesian occupation of East Timor in 1975..." I'm not really sure what that is supposed to say.

Typo. Was supposed to be "shot". — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:09, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Whole new meaning, and that indeed makes it an interesting artefact. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 05:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If you can fix these few remaining issues, I'm happy to pass this nomination. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 04:47, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Everything looks great! Great job on the article, one more thank you for your patience. This article now passes and is now a Good Article. -- ТимофейЛееСуда. 05:24, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! In regards to Christine's comment "The last sentence in the above-mentioned 4th paragraph is also unclear; is there any information about why the artefacts were being collected and not placed in the museum?", it is the acquisition process that is ongoing; I've reworded. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:27, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Title

Saying National Press Monument in the title would not automatically evoke a museum in Indonesia. I suggest moving it to National Press Monument (Indonesia) for better clarification. There might be other national press monuments elsewhere. Bennylin (talk) 06:45, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Unless there is another National Press Monument, I think that would be redundant. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:48, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Revert

Was the revert necessary or are you owning the article now? Could a third party take a look at the diffs? Bennylin (talk) 11:00, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Since I haven't finished adding citations when the revert occurs, I would ask permission nuwun sewu, to continue where I left off. Bennylin (talk) 11:04, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Erm, no. You are WP:overlinking (museum? really? that's such a common word that the value of that link is next to nothing), adding data into the infobox which makes it overly cramped (wp:disinfobox), and adding information which is not relevant, not cited, or both (the "pen" in front of the monument, for instance, or the name of the kenthongan). — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:47, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Also, you did not follow the existing citation style (SFN), added refs into the lede despite the MOS explicitly saying it is not necessary (see WP:LEDE), and linking to categories in articles (that is disingenous, as an article on the Press in Indonesia is well overdue, and blocking the redlink makes it less likely to be created). The "See alsos" are irrelevant (Radya Pustaka Museum is unrelated to press; simply being in the same city is not enough) or could possibly be linked in the body of the article. The addition of "library" to the first sentence is misleading, as the main purpose of the monument is not as a library; most schools have libraries, but we would not say that the school is a library. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:51, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As for your claim of "ownership", read WP:BRD: a single revert of controversial edits is certainly valid, and discussion (as is going on here) is the desired outcome. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 11:56, 25 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

File:National Press Monument, Solo (panorama) Diliff.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:National Press Monument, Solo (panorama) Diliff.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on May 26, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-05-26. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 02:17, 16 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Picture of the day

The National Press Monument is a monument and museum to the national Indonesian press. Established in 1978, the monument is located in Surakarta, Central Java, and operated by the Ministry of Communications and Information. The complex consists of an old society building as well as several subsequent expansions. It has a collection of over a million newspapers and magazines, as well as a variety of exhibitions and artefacts related to the history of the press in Indonesia. Facilities include a multimedia room, free-to-read newspapers, and a library.Photograph: Chris Woodrich; edit: David Iliff

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