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"Civic center"

The article says:

the Chapel with its groves of trees, Kresge Auditorium, and the green that stretches between the two buildings were envisioned as and remains the civic center of the MIT campus.

I'd like to see a source citation for its having been envisioned as the "civic center," (which I think is quite possible... but needs sourcing) and for its actually being a "civic center."

When I attended MIT, I frequently walked across that "green" and I must say that I was very startled to see this statement. For me, that particular green had no sense of "placeness" to it at all. In my mental map it was just a void. I never heard any other student make any verbal reference to it. It had no nickname.

And I lived at Burton House, meaning that not only was I physically close to it, but frequently walked by it or through it on my way to classes.

It has even less distinction in my mind than the large grassy space that then surrounded the Great Sail, between the Hayden Library and the Green Building.

I can easily imagine some architect's fantasy of a Harvard Yard-like space with lean-limbed youths in suits exchanging campus news on their way to take in an edifying performance at Kresge, or gathering after chapel to discuss the sermon before relaxing over coffee at the Student Union, but all I can say is, that's not how I experienced it. If pressed to name the "civic center" I would probably have said the ground floor of Building Ten. Dpbsmith (talk) 20:35, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I don't think Kresge Oval is the "Civic Center" of campus. Possibly Lobby 10 as you say, or perhaps the first floor of the student center. On the other hand, when there is nice weather, there are usually many people in the Oval playing frisbee or sleeping. Nationalparks 21:07, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kresge Oval? You're kidding. Is that its official name? Since when? That name would have reduced my classmates and I to rolling on the ground laughing. If you know why, you're way too old. The explanation is in an HTML comment. Dpbsmith (talk) 00:49, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That is its official, MIT-given, name: [1]. Until I read your HTML comment, I had no idea why that would be funny! Nationalparks 01:31, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

According to this Everything2 node, it might have been funny up until 1979...

Nice map. I had no idea that the Chapel is "Building W15" or that Kresge is "Building W16." Dpbsmith (talk) 02:26, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is not the civic center today, and the wording should be changed. But at the time, it was built, MIT had hoped that the two buildings would constitute the public definition of MIT's "New Man" as it was called Putting a new public face onto MIT - it was intended by Saarinen to be a type of modern-day agora... At any rate, today none of that counts for much. I will see if I can find te sources for this.Brosi 22:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

- - - - -

"Within is an intimate space, stunning in its immediate visual impact" - this is as arm-wavingly subjective as it gets, and is quite out of place in an encyclopaedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.239.234 (talk) 22:19, 12 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Removing "notability" tag

I just added this paragraph

Leland Rath included the building in his History of American Architecture, using it to illustrate the contrast between Saarinen's approach and that of Mies (who designed a chapel for IIT). Rath said that "through the sheer manipulation of light and the its focus on a blazingly white marble altar block, Saarinen created a place of mystic quiet."

—Leland M. Roth (2003). American Architecture: A History. Westview Press. 0813336627., p. 437

I think it disposes of the "notability" issue and am accordingly removing the tag. Dpbsmith (talk) 15:56, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P. S. Would that Google Books had more than a snippet view of a book that says "The MIT Chapel from the outside reduces sexuality to its most fundamental terms: there is simply a massive womb afloat in a symbolic sea and surmounted by a massive phallus."[2] It looks like a rather uncomfortable "phallus," I must say; it's true that a cat's penis has spines on it, but this looks worse. My goodness, had I but known that as an undergraduate. It's way classier than what we used to say, which was that it looked like a can of soup with an opener stuck in it. Dpbsmith (talk) 16:15, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Talk Page Vandalism? Changes to interior?

I was in the chapel several times over the past couple weeks, and there is no white marble altar, nor is there the sculpture hanging from the skylight. Are these elements removeable (seems difficult for a marble altar)? Temporarily out (for cleaning, care)? Permanently removed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.17.235 (talk) 15:40, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Both altar and screen were still there last night - unchanged. I've seen them cleaned in place several times. I note this was the first post from 71.174.17.235. Talk page vandalism? Lentower (talk) 18:39, 1 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]