Talk:Lee Valley White Water Centre

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Pictures needed

We need for someone to take some pictures for use in this article. There are many good pictures on the Internet, but none with the necessary copyright release. If you have some, place a note on my user talk page (click on the word "talk" in parentheses), and I can upload them for you. Thanks, HowardMorland (talk) 15:57, 24 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Energy consumption of Olympic slalom course

What's all this about massive energy costs? (in the sixth paragraph)

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/rapids-of-rockies-come-to-herts-for-2012-olympic-canoeists-6472660.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.66.216.5 (talk) 15:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Massive Energy Costs

Part of the article states "the massive energy costs of pumping the water". As a casual reader of the article I find this vague sentence frustrating. Does it cost £100 a day or a million pounds an hour? I don't need exact figures, but the article needs something to quantify what 'massive' is, as it's a very subjective word. A better sentence would be "the massive energy costs of pumping the water, estimated at £X per hour". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.40.195 (talk) 19:26, 2 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the word "massive" as it was meaningless. As it is, that sentence was a direct copy/paste from this news article. A Google news archives search for the years 2000 to the end of 2011 turned up nothing for "Lee Valley White" or "Broxbourne White Water" and the word "energy." I tried a wider search (both News and web) but only learned that the water flow is 15 cubic metres or 13,000 litres per second.

The Artificial whitewater article claims "typically 1-2 megawatts of electrical power is needed to pump 15 cubic metres per second of water down a course with a 5 meter drop in height." but there is no citation. I {{unreferenced}} tagged that article. This web page for the Ocoee Whitewater Center says their water costs 30 Megawatts of electricity but that's a special case in that they divert water from an electricity production facility to "power" the white water facility.

The List of artificial whitewater courses also makes unsourced claims such as "A single channel on the Olympic model — a 6-meter drop at 17 m³/s — represents one megawatt of energy, either supplied by pumps or sacrificed in the case of diversion around a hydroelectric generator." If that's true then the Lee Valley White Water Centre should be under one megawatt of energy as it has a 5.5 meter drop at 15 m³/s.

It does appear that the Centre uses around one megawatt. This page seems reliable for electrical costs which says 7.95 pence per kWh for the UK. This is £79.5 per megawatt/hour. I doubt they will run the pumps 24 hours per day but if they did it would be £1,908 per day and £58,075 per month (£1,908 per day times 365.25 days/year divided by 12 months/year). It's not clear why they want £50,000 per day. --Marc Kupper|talk 03:35, 6 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I cannot find a reference which converts m³/s to kilowatts per meter of elevation change, but the calculation is straightforward. It comes out to 9.8 kilowatts by the following reasoning. One cubic meter of water has a mass of 1000 kg, by definition, and a weight of 9800 Newtons at the earth's surface. One watt is one Newton-meter per second, by definition. Therefore, one cubic meter of water per second is 9.8 kilowatts per meter. (This calculation has been confirmed by answers.yahoo.com.) Therefore 13 m³/s times a 5.5 meter drop comes to 700 kilowatts (13 x 5.5 x 9.8), assuming 100% efficiency of the electric pumps. By the way, it does not matter how long it takes the pumps to raise the water, as long as 13 m³ arrive at the start pool every second, to replace the 13 m³ that left the start pool and entered the channel during that second.

The London architects deliberately designed the whitewater venue to use less electricity than the 2008 Beijing venue by having a lower drop (5.5 m vs. 6.3 m), in order to reduce expenses in its operation as a water park after the Olympics. HowardMorland (talk) 05:11, 5 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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