Talk:Kissena Creek

Kissena Creek has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: March 2, 2020. (Reviewed version).

A fact from Kissena Creek appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 7 April 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Kissena Creek originates from a New York City swamp that remained undeveloped through 2000?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/April. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Kissena Creek.

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GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Kissena Creek/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Hog Farm (talk · contribs) 00:49, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Lead - The historical names are not mentioned elsewhere in the article. If they're important enough to be in the lead, they should also be mentioned elsewhere.

Done.

Headwaters - Maybe I'm just thinking about this too much, but you state that the swamp was drained in 1918, except for the 60 sq ft under the barn. However, you point out (with the support of the NYT), that the swamp persisted until the end of the 20th century. Could you clarify this? Does this indicate that the ground remained seasonally inundated, or that the old swampland remained undeveloped and became unsavory at times?

The second one is correct - it was undeveloped until the beginning of this century, which I found surprising considering Queens' huge population. epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the name of "Doughty's Swamp" does not seem to be supported by either of the sources, unless I missed the mention.

Added a source. epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Does "The original alignment between Kissena and Parsons Boulevards remains as the two-block Aguilar Avenue." really need 4 citations?

I cut it down to 3. epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fresh Meadows - Is there a specific reason for the sudden change of tense in the middle of the paragraph, only to revert back to the present tense?

Fixed - that was a mistake. epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kissena Park - The caption identifies the body of water as "Kissena Pond", this should probably be changed to "Kissena Lake" to maintain consistency of name usage.

Done.

"The glacier covered much of Long Island" - What's "the glacier"? Using the word the indicates that a specific glacier is being referred to, but this is the first reference to glaciers in the article.

Fixed to "a glacier". epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"One of these recesses became Kissena Lake.[20][21]" - This sentence should be moved after the sentence following it. It makes more sense to discuss the recesses first, then to mention that one of them became Kissena Lake. That whole middle paragraph just feels out of order to me, I'd recommend you look into trying to arrange the content is a way that makes more sense.

Done.

Kissena Corridor Park - Kissena Corridor Park is notable, right? If it is, the redlinks should be kept. If not, the wikilinks should be removed.

Yes. Tdorante10 has been working on an article for the park for several years. It is definitely one of the most notable redlinks I've seen in a while, but I haven't gotten around to it, either. epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"The western stretch of Kissena Corridor Park was landfilled in the 1950s from dirt excavated for the construction of the Long Island Expressway." - Are five citations necessary here? This doesn't seem controversial at all, and controversial statements are usually the only ones with that many citations. The Kadinsky reference itself seems sufficient here.

Done.

"On June 8, 1959, Moses announced that additional fill" - Who is Moses? This name isn't mentioned before in the article, and I'm assuming that Moses isn't the intended person.

It's Robert Moses, (in)famous NYC parks commissioner. I thought he was mentioned before. epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Queens Botanical Garden - "Otherwise, the water empties into the Flushing River which flows north into Flushing Bay" - So this is where the overflow goes, right?

That is correct.

"Lawrence Street / College Point Boulevard" I think the spaces around the / should probably go.

Done.

Last paragraph has another switch in tense.

Fixed.

General comments - You don't mention much of the covering over, except for that of the swamp. Hillcrest is also mentioned in the lead, but not in the main body of the article. And lastly, what does the creek do now? You mention that it formerly flowed into Flushing Creek, but don't clearly state what it does now? Is it just the sewer line?

Much of the covering-over wasn't mentioned in references of the time, the exceptions being the swamp and Kissena Corridor Park. At the time, the creek was seen as a minor impediment to development, rather than a significant nuisance. There are several other creeks in NYC which do not have articles because of the lack of significant coverage so far.
I fixed the Hillcrest mention.
Yes, everything is now diverted into sewer lines. It still flows into the creek, albeit through the CSO facility. epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'll get to the images, references, etc. later, that's it for now. Hog Farm (talk) 02:10, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images and references

Both images are appropriately tagged.

References

Ref 3 (Queens Jewish Link) is a 404 deadlink.
Ref 10 (NY Daily News) is a 503 deadlink (503s may be temporary).
Is ref 15 (Forgotten New York) a reliable source?
Ref 28 (Flushing Bay Facility Report Plan) is unavailable deadlink.
Ref 47 (Combined Sewer Outflow) is a deadlink.

The other refs look good. That's all, pinging nominator. Epicgenius Hog Farm (talk) 14:31, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Hog Farm: Thanks for the review. I have fixed almost all of these (and removed Forgotten NY and the dead CSO ref). The exception is the Daily News, which is occasionally down. epicgenius (talk) 14:57, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Epicgenius: All my concerns have been addressed, passing as a GA now. Hog Farm (talk) 15:07, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:58, 1 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(

Comment or view
Article history

)

... that Kissena Creek, named for the Chippewa language term for "it is cold", was partly diverted into a sewer in the mid-20th century? Source: Kadinsky, Sergey (2016). Hidden Waters of New York City: A History and Guide to 101 Forgotten Lakes, Ponds, Creeks, and Streams in the Five Boroughs. Countryman Press. p. 112
- ALT1:... that Kissena Creek originates from a New York City swamp that remained undeveloped through the end of the 20th century? Source: NY Times 2018
- ALT2:... that Kissena Creek in New York City runs underneath a golf course, two parks, and a botanical garden? Source: Kadinsky 2016

Reviewed: Winged wheel
Comment: More hooks pending

Improved to Good Article status by Epicgenius (talk). Self-nominated at 18:37, 3 March 2020 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough
New enough: Long enough:

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Cited: Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: No issues with the article content as it stands. ALT0 is a bit weird, trying to combine two facts that aren't naturally connected. I find ALT2 to be the most interesting (and AGF on the offline source) and it is properly sourced in the lead. ALT1 is almost as interesting, but I would rather see "until 2000" to really drive the point home. Sounder Bruce 07:11, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@SounderBruce: Thanks for the review. How about ALT3, which is a modification of ALT1? epicgenius (talk) 16:27, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- ALT3:... that Kissena Creek originates from a New York City swamp that remained undeveloped through 2000?

ALT3 looks good. Sounder Bruce 01:28, 11 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]