Talk:Killing of David Maland

Death Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Religion: New religious movements Low‑importance

	Religion portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by New religious movements work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Law Enforcement Low‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Law Enforcement. Please Join, Create, and Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

United States: Washington Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Washington (assessed as Low-importance).

Perpetrator Bauckholt? Get facts straight first.

Grotesque. So far, it seems clear that at least one of the two shots from the gun Youngblut (!) used hit and killed the policeman. Of the other gun ("Bauckholt's"), not a single shot had been fired. Makes the whole affair seems even stranger that lethal shooter Youngblut has hardly been hurt by police fire but Bauckholt, supposedly still in the car, was killed by police projectiles. 2003:C0:DF08:8700:ADBE:6FA8:E18C:5F6D (talk) 19:16, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't believe it's clear yet who shot Maland- if it was Youngblut or Bauckholt or if it was friendly fire. 73.234.98.192 (talk) 22:07, 29 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Calling an unconvicted person a "perpetrator" (in infobox and heading), "shooter", or "gunman" in wiki-voice are definitely WP:SUSPECT violations. Jfire (talk) 01:59, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is as yet unknown which bullet from whose gun killed the agent. It was not Bauckholt. It may have been Youngblut or it may have been an agent. The most reliable sources to date as to what happened are:

1) the 01/22/2025 FBI affidavit of Special Agent Leah Bogdanowicz:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69573795/5/1/united-states-v-youngblut/

2) the 01/27/2025 motion for detention by AUSA Matthew Lasher:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69573795/20/united-states-v-youngblut/

The court docket for the case in general should be monitored for future documents:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/69573795/united-states-v-youngblut/ Patternbuffered (talk) 07:54, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As stated by @Jfire and @Patternbuffered, there is no indication (that I am aware of) that the passenger in the car injured anyone. On the contrary, the court documents mentioned by @Jfire indicate that the passenger did not fire a weapon. The affidavit of Special Agent Leah Bogdanowicz that the passenger "attempted to draw" a firearm, which (depending on how this observation was made, by a person or by a camera, which is currently unknown) seems to be an observation of low reliability in the situation of the shooting. Thus, there is little evidence at all linking the passenger to a criminal act.

The passenger was also not a public figure before the shooting. Therefore, I don't think the passenger's name should be mentioned here at all, at least not until there is no clear evidence of his relevance to this incident?

Descriptions of the passenger as "perpetrator" or "shooter" certainly need to be removed immediately. 2A02:3100:B001:2100:F0B9:B99A:76DA:E2FB (talk) 20:41, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For the record, it was @Patternbuffered, not I, that mentioned court documents. Those documents in fact cannot be used, per WP:BLPPRIMARY: Exercise extreme caution in using primary sources. Do not use trial transcripts and other court records, or other public documents, to support assertions about a living person. Jfire (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies for my inaccuracy in mentioning you, and thank you for the clarification! 2A02:3100:B001:2100:F0B9:B99A:76DA:E2FB (talk) 21:01, 30 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Deadnaming

Is that really the right way to be referring to the suspects? My reading of the policy suggests that their chosen names/gender identity should be used. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Gender_identity — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:3D08:1E7C:B810:CC6F:2CB2:C10:5DA6 (talk) 04:43, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Now edited to refer to Ophelia Bauckholt by her chosen name and pronouns. Some secondhand claims online suggest that Teresa at one point went by Milo but no longer does so (such that the current usage in the article reflects MOS:GIDINFO), but I don't know of any reliable sources that express an opinion one way or the other on the matter (as opposed to Ophelia's case, where we do have confirmation). RavenclawPrefect (talk) 21:59, 31 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

zizians.info suggests that all four people arrested as well as Ziz themselves are transsexual and that the cult actively targets transsexual people for recruitment. Jpatokal (talk) 23:38, 1 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

zizians.info is referring to an incident in 2019. It doesn't mention Youngblut, Bauckholt or Snyder at all and contains no information on recent events.

https://www.sonomanews.com/article/news/authorities-id-four-arrested-in-westminster-woods-protest/ Patternbuffered (talk) 12:16, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rename/refocus article

The article is currently named after a single killing, but the investigation has now been expanded to at least four killings with at least two alleged perpetrators, all tied to the Zizian movement. It's going to be tricky to come up with an accurate yet NPOV name. Jpatokal (talk) 23:29, 1 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think the easiest solution is just wait to see what major sources write about these killings, assuming they are all indeed related, and see what name they use. The lead mentions Lind and the Zajkos, but the article currently focuses on and is named after Maland. If somebody wants to write an article about the killing of Lind or the Zajkos, that can be a separate article with it's own title, and when there's a concrete connection established in a reputable source, those articles can be merged into one, and by then there may be a suitable name for that article. Truthnope (talk) 01:46, 2 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]