Talk:John Finnemore

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Requested move 20 October 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. There is consensus that the living Finnemore is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and the deceased Finnemore should be renamed to John Finnemore (born 1863). While John Finnemore (writer, born 1863) is suggested, the first disambiguator is redundant as John Finnemore (writer) is moved to the base title. (page mover nac) Flooded with them hundreds 10:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

– There are currently articles at John Finnemore (writer) (here) and John Finnemore (author), with a disambiguation at John Finnemore.

Since July 2015 or article creation, pageviews are as follows:

Which I think demonstrates that John Finnemore (writer) is the primary topic by usage. This page receives more than 90% of the traffic including the disambiguation page, and John Finnemore (author) receives about half the page views that the disambiguation page gets. I don't think either can easily be ascribed greater long term significance, but I think the usage differential is sufficient to move the page. Ralbegen (talk) 22:17, 20 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to John Finnemore (writer, born 1977) and John Finnemore (writer, born 1863). The current naming is clearly ludicrous, given all authors are by definition writers. But the former is probably only primary due to recentism. I don't think there's any real primary topic here. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:23, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Necrothesp I agree that neither is primary with respect to long-term significance, and that the usage difference is because one of them is still alive and relevant. But usage is another sense of primacy in WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, and it's clear that most people coming to the encyclopedia are after the living Finnemore. I'm not sure that recentism is something an affliction that's too useful for a page that's primary by usage. Ralbegen (talk) 15:34, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

To be honest, I'm less bothered about one being primary than I am about the non-existent disambiguation. I don't have an especial problem with the living Finnemore becoming primary topic, but the other one should still be moved to John Finnemore (writer, born 1863). -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:40, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Support moving this one to 'John Finnemore' per WP:2DABPRIMARY. This one is clearly the primary topic by usage to judge by both the pageview figures above and the numbers of incoming links. The schoolboy tales for which the deceased one is best remembered are by now so dated I don't think WP:recentism is much of a concern. (The biography section of the deceased one is entirely WP:original research from primary sources, leaving me doubtful there's even evidence of meeting WP:GNG.) I'm not too concerned what the title of that article is, but in line with the 'George Heriot' example at the bottom of WP:NCPDAB, 'John Finnemore (born 1863)' seems sufficient to me. -- Qwfp (talk) 19:47, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Per Qwfp. Crouch, Swale (talk) 19:51, 24 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as propose This doesn't deal with the problem of "(author)". Both "(author)" and "(writer)" need to be renamed, since the disambiguators are bad, as both write, and are authors of written material. Rename per Necrothesp -- 65.94.42.18 (talk) 04:26, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This proposal is about the living Finnemore being the primary topic by usage. I'd be happy to see the "(author)" disambiguation also changed, though my preference would be for "John Finnemore (born 1863)" as proposed by Qwfp above. Ralbegen (talk) 10:57, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.