Talk:Ignace Tonené

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ignace Tonené/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Mike Christie (talk · contribs) 19:38, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 19:38, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I can't figure out exactly when the image was published (as opposed to taken) but since it looks like part of a BM collection that's been released I'll assume that's OK. I also can't find anything out about cartographic.info but since it seems to be just re-presenting Google maps information that's fine.

• Earwig shows some short re-used phrases, but most are formulaic. I would change "notoriously hostile", however, as that's part of a longer phrase taken from the source.
• "their concerns about arriving lumberjacks and that while their land was not ceded, they sought an annuity and a reserve": what does "ceded" mean here? I know what the word means, but is he saying "although the government had not ceded any land to the Teme-Augama Anishnabai" (and hence they lacked certain rights)? Or "although the Teme-Augama Anishnabai had not ceded any lands to the government" (and hence argued they had rights, and wished for an annuity)? I see this is followed up with a Vankoughnet's acknowledgement, so it looks like the latter, but this is not clear before that point.
• "~2,700 square miles": don't use shorthard like "~"
• "He continued to pressure for federal financial support": "pressure" requires a direct obect so either "He continued to pressure the government [or whoever it might be] for federal financial support" or "He continued to press for federal financial support".
• "an annual payment to the nation, the value comparable to others first nations included in the Robinson-Huron Treaty": a bit garbled -- perhaps "an annual payment to the nation comparable to the amount other first nations included in the Robinson-Huron Treaty were receiving". And perhaps link "first nations" here to First Nations in Canada?
• "In 1888, in the context of Oliver Mowat's refusal to create the reserve": why would Mowat's actions affect where Tonené moved to? Other than that it could not now be to a reservation since none had been created?
• "while hunting and trapping along the journey, but also, motivated by the discovery of silver at Cobalt, Ontario, prospecting": convoluted syntax; can we simplify this?

Spotchecks:

• FN 1g cites 'During a 1st Jan 1879 speech, Tonené warned his community: “the white men were coming closer and closer every year and the deer and furs were becoming scarcer and scarcer...so that in a few years more Indians could not live by hunting alone."' Verified.
• FN 1m cites "Tonené's prospecting became so good that the Canadian Mining Journal credited him with instigating the Larder Lake gold rush of 1906": the source doesn't mention the journal and calls it the Kerr-Addison mine, as does the article lead.
• FN 1c cites "Tonené worked for the Hudson's Bay Company, delivering mail between its trading posts at Lake Timiskaming and Lake Temagami." Verified.
• FN 1o cites "Tonené was succeeded as head chief by John Paul, and Tonené went back to hunting and trapping in Abitibi country." Verified, but I would suggest making this "Tonené was succeeded as head chief by John Paul, though Tonené continued to hunt and trap in Abitibi country" as closer to the source meaning.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:11, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you for the clear feedback.

1. I changed "notoriously" to "known to be"
2. Ceded in this context means more like the land is not subject to an agreement, meaning Europeans did not have any basis to control it, short hand, it was Indigenous land (Indigenous people had not agree to relinquish any rights over it)
3. I changed ~ for "approximately"
4. "press" is a much better word, thanks
5. I agree, I made the change and added the link
6. I think times were getting tougher, Europeans were moving in, this is somewhere between sensible conclusions and speculation though. I've changed it to "after" rather than "in the context of" which I think avoids the need to synthesise/speculate. Hope that's OK?
7. I've broken the sentence into two, does that make it better?

Spotchecks:

1. Kerr-Addison Mine (I wrote that one too) is on Larder Lake and I think people tend to talk about mine names, but the names only came later, so I think it's better to state the name of the ore body, rather than the main mine that was built on it, there are two other very proximate mines that also came from the same find).
2. I made the edit suggestion

CT55555 (talk) 21:01, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

All your changes look good. The only remaining issue for me is the sentence about the land not being ceded; I don't think this will be clear to readers who know nothing of the topic or period. How about "their concerns about arriving lumberjacks and that they sought an annuity and a reserve, since their people's land had not been ceded to the Canadian government"? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:03, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, I see your suggestion as a very clear improvement and have made the edit. CT55555 (talk) 02:38, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

That looks good. Sorry, but I've just realized I didn't follow up properly on one other point. The Canadian Mining Journal is not mentioned in the source used to cite that information; is there another source that needs to be cited for that? Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 03:32, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Yes, you are completely correct. I read that and then cited it incorrectly. It was easy to find again and I just added in a fifth citation. CT55555 (talk) 03:38, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Looks good; passing. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 04:26, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. And thank you for being such a clear, concise, and solutions-orientated reviewer. This was a pleasure. CT55555 (talk) 11:01, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• ChiefToneneLakeSign 2a.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:38, 9 March 2023 (UTC)

Image

I've taken the liberty of restoring and rotating the lead image, to clean it up a mite. Adam Cuerden ^(talk)_{Has about 8.3% of all FPs. Currently celebrating his 600^th FP!} 01:06, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Language?

The article states he was "most commonly known by his English name Ignace Tonené". "Ignace" and "Tonené" are two mighty French-sounding names. Should the article acknowledge this? Piledhigheranddeeper (talk) 02:28, 31 May 2023 (UTC)

I think yes (and this is probably my error) and I think it should say "most commonly known as Ignace Tonené" and therefore avoid stating what language his common name is, unless any sources state it...the actual citation for that paragraph is silent on what language his common name is (not that I'm disagreeing about them being French). CT55555(talk) 02:33, 31 May 2023 (UTC)