Talk:Hoysala Kingdom

Hoysala Kingdom is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on March 8, 2008.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 7, 2006	Peer review	Reviewed
December 23, 2006	Featured article candidate	Promoted
September 24, 2022	Featured article review	Demoted

Current status: Former featured article

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This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

On 7 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Hoysala dynasty. The result of the discussion was not moved.

On 27 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved to Hoysala dynasty. The result of the discussion was not moved.

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Regarding the mentions of saints namely srila jayatirtha and srila vyasa tirtha

This saints are not present at any courts of hoysala empire and they are contemporary in vijyanagara empire 2409:4071:2081:FC04:2897:726F:9CC2:D760 (talk) 01:00, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Read carefully. That paragraph does not claim they belonged to the Hoysala period, ("The later saints of Madhvacharya's order......") but to the later periods as a general discussion on the spread of Bhakti movement and role played by the Haridasas.Pied Hornbill (talk) 19:23, 8 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think it betrays the neutrality of article Dawn wick (talk) 01:31, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There's is no need of mentioning haridasa and the later saints of madhvacharya isnt it? And also shri bashya is a commentary of brahmasutra i think and its not a critique on adi shankara Dawn wick (talk) 01:33, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That part has been there since the article became a FA. you alone cant decide whether it should be there or not. If you continue to edit war, you will be blocked by admins.Pied Hornbill (talk) 12:20, 9 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:URFA/2020

I am reviewing this (old or very old) FA as part of WP:URFA/2020, an effort to determine whether old featured articles still meet the featured article criteria. This article is not at FA standard. It has considerable uncited text (I started tagging some, but upon finding so much, did not continue tagging), MOS:SANDWICHing, and duplicate wikilinks should be reviewed. The WP:LEAD could better summarize all aspects of the article. Listing at WP:FARGIVEN. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:43, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Also, recent scholarly sources should be reviewed and incorporated as needed. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:47, 5 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

References

The references are not consistently formatted at present, but/and I want to use the Harvard system when working on the article, which I intend to work on. Please comment if you have any objection. Amitchell125 (talk) 20:19, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 7 January 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. A new request can be created to change to Hoysala Kingdom (closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 (talk) 12:20, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hoysala Empire → Hoysala dynasty – Appears to be WP:COMMONNAME based on This Search. The Hoysalas were a regional power in Southern India so calling them an Empire is inaccurate. SKAG123 (talk) 01:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This pertains to the empire/ kingdom, not dynasty (a series of rulers). There are 2 articles for Mughal dynasty and Mughal empire.--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 11:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on the search above. Hoysala Kingdom appears to be the common name over Hoysala Empire. Should the article be changed? SKAG123 (talk) 19:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Hinduism has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:25, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject India has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:26, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Former countries has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:26, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject History has been notified of this discussion. Vanderwaalforces (talk) 19:27, 7 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

SKAG123 is now suggesting using "Kingdom" over "Empire" or "dynasty", and edited the request to reflect this. I have reverted that change because it made the reason for Redtigerxyz's oppose unclear. Dekimasuよ! 05:44, 14 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 11 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerium (talk) 01:15, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hoysala Empire → Hoysala Kingdom – Modyfying my earlier request. This Appears to be WP:COMMONNAME based on This Search. The Hoysalas were a regional power in Southern India so calling them an Empire is inaccurate. SKAG123 (talk) 23:46, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support A Complete Guide to Hoysaḷa Temples - Gerard Foekema (1996), The Penguin History of Early India: From the Origins to AD 1300 by Romila Thapar · (2015) call it a kingdom, Britannica calls it kingdom.--Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:06, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per Redtigerxyz. पाटलिपुत्र (Pataliputra) (talk) 17:08, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support per all above. Johnbod (talk) 18:37, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 27 February 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 (talk) 17:10, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hoysala Kingdom → Hoysala dynasty – Hoysala Kingdom sounds very inappropriate to this ruling family, kingdoms are very small in size and Hoysalas held their sway over different regions of different linguistics and people i.e. modern states of India like Tamil Nadu, parts of Andhra Pradesh, Kerala and different communities under them were Tigula, Malayala, Telugu & Marathi in North, dynasty sounds very proper to this ruling family than a kingdom CatTheMeow (talk) 02:33, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose This article is about the kingdom and not the dynasty. This move was very recently attempted and failed for the same reason. Arnav Bhate (talk) 14:49, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose We recently discussed this. About the kingdom, not ruling family (dynasty). --Redtigerxyz ^Talk 17:52, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Redtigerxyz Hoysalas were a ruling family (dynasty) from 10th century to 1346 AD same family ruled the dynasty CatTheMeow (talk) 02:54, 28 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose this article is about the kingdom not the dynasty. See Mughal Empire and Mughal Dynasty. SKAG123 (talk) 19:23, 4 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SKAG123 You're wrong, a dynasty refers to a succession of rulers of the same line of descent which Hoysalas had, from Nripa Kama to Veera Ballala IV (from the same line), while Kingdom refers to a state, country or a territory ruled by the monarch or a queen, at the early stages prior to Vishnuvardhana the Hoysalas were a Kingdom, and after Vishnuvardhana it turned into a dynasty and an empire at its end during Veera Ballala III, overall the Hoysala dynasty expanded their territory beyond their original homeland, it includes modern Indian states like Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh in East, Konkan (Goa & parts of Karnataka) in North West, Tuluva country in South West, Kerala (Malayala) in South West, Tamil Nadu in South.

The Historians didn't confirm the type of the ruling family, they call it as 'Hoysalas', 'Hoysala Kingdom', 'Hoysala dynasty' & 'Hoysala Empire', these names were affiliated to them based on their expansion and further conquests, at last which they call it as an empire after the death of Veera Ballala III, since Empire is of many states and extensive, the name dynasty should be adopted. CatTheMeow (talk) 03:26, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Hoysalas were hardly influential outside southern India and were a regional power at most. Therefore kingdom is more appropriate and more importantly appears to be the common name based on a google scholar search mentioned above.

In Wikipedia we use dynesty to refer to the ruling family and kingdom/empire to refer to their territories. This is generally the pattern for most Indian related articles such as Mughal Empire and Mughal Dynasty, Chola Empire and Chola Dynasty Kingdom of Mysore and Wadiyar dynasty SKAG123 (talk) 08:27, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SKAG123 Yes Hoysala were not a dynesty but they were a dynasty, Thank you for confirming, since as you mentioned dynasty (dynesty according to you) it is appropriate to Hoysalas who were a ruling family (as per your statement), before going on your own POV (with no proper refering to the history) we cannot affiliate such name as 'Kingdom' to them as they expanded their territory beyond their original homeland. CatTheMeow (talk) 14:17, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

On the basis of popularity, the name 'dynasty' or 'empire' is seen more in people's view, as lot many websites (in Google) show it as either dynasty or empire CatTheMeow (talk) 14:24, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per last time, and above. The Hoysala state was rather too small to be an empire, and "kingdom" is ok for it, even at its peak. About the kingdom, not ruling family (dynasty), indeed. Johnbod (talk) 14:35, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 12 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Procedural speedy close. The exact same proposal was unanimously opposed and closed recently. The consensus then is that the topic of this article is not solely about the dynasty but rather about the larger polity, which the renewed RM does not acknowledge or address at all. Wikipedia is not a debating forum. (non-admin closure) SnowFire (talk) 15:51, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hoysala Kingdom → Hoysala dynasty – The Hoysalas were a ruling family, which makes them to be called as a 'dynasty'^[1] than a kingdom, the term 'Kingdom' means a small state, region or a territory ruled by a monarch or queen which is inappropriate to call this ruling family as a Kingdom, while the Hoysalas in comparative to the modern India they ruled the states of India like Karnataka, Western parts of Andhra Pradesh, Northern Tamil Nadu & Kerala, the same continuous line belonged to the same family from Nripa Kama (1022-1027) to Ballala IV (1345), further on the basis on popularity and people's context there are 4,43,000 results for the search 'Hoysala dynasty' in Google, 2,10,000 results for 'Hoysala Kingdom' & 34,90,000 results for 'Hoysala empire', the popular Encyclopedia, the Britannica calls the ruling family as 'Hoysala dynasty' ^[2] CatTheMeow (talk) 13:18, 12 March 2024 (UTC) CatTheMeow (talk) 13:18, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural close This is the third RM this year - the last only closed 6 days ago. We don't do this. Johnbod (talk) 14:35, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Map

Current map is terrible, it is difficult to make out the difference between land and sea unless you click the map, which should not be necessary, and even then it hurts my eyes (with perfect eyesight) to look at! Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 12:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi@Vif12vfvf I think the current map is fine.

Regards Rawn3012 (talk) 10:18, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Land and sea do not sufficiently contrast, land should have been a darker shade of grey. Vif12vf/Tiberius (talk) 14:05, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Will do that!!

Regards Rawn3012 (talk) 14:09, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

[1] History of South India.

[2] "Hoysala dynasty".

[1]

[2]