Talk:Harry McNish

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Harry McNish is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on September 11, 2013.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 19, 2007	Peer review	Reviewed
January 31, 2007	Featured article candidate	Promoted

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 13, 2006.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ...that Harry McNish was one of only four crew members of the Endurance not to receive the Polar Medal, and that his grave remained unmarked for almost 30 years?

Current status: Featured article

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POV deletion

Here is what I wrote as the lead in for McNeish that was deleted as POV: McNeish justified his rebellion by reasoning that if the ship was destroyed, McNeish was under no legal obligation to obey Shackleton. However, history has disagreed with McNeish. For example, although he received full naval honors at his funeral in 1930, McNeish was buried in an unmarked grave that remained unmarked for the next twenty-nine years. When he finally received a headstone in 1959, McNeish's name was misspelled as 'McNish' on the headstone. That spelling mistake has been carried forth by many. Further, more appears to be known about McNeish's cat, Mrs. Chippy than they do about McNeish. McNeish's troubles may have been foreshadowed by his naming his cat Mrs. Chippy, where the cat actually was a male tabby.

The above claims were supported with specific evidence:

1. Full naval honors but buried in an unmarked grave for 29 years.

2. Name misspelled on headstone as "McNish".

3. Some of those who write about McNeish carried forward the "McNish" error.

4. McNeish named his cat "Mrs." when the cat was a male.

5. McNeish rebellion against established authority in the face of extreme adversity.

6. Was one of only four of the crew not to receive the Polar Medal.

7. No one has retroactively awarded McNish a Polar Medal; the best they can muster is a small wall plaque on the outside of a public library.

8. People mustered together to give his cat has a statute but have not mustered together to give McNeish a statute.

9. McNeish left his wife

10. McNeish left behind his carpentry tools

Wikipedia non-bias policy does not say that we should state facts and not opinions. POVs and opinions are permitted in Wikipedia articles. You may disagree about how history's opinions on McNeish are best stated so that they are neutral, but it is not appropriate to delete combined facts to support a neutral opinion because that opinion is not favorable to the subject. It may be necessary to qualify the description of the opinions on McNeish or to present several formulations. Why would McNeish leave behind his wife and the very tools that defined his livelihood? How is it possible that McNeish receive full naval honors without a headstone? Why didn't anyone step forward for the next twenty nine years to give McNeish a head stone? Why did some of those who write about McNeish not care enough to discover the incorrect use of his name? To what extent does rebelling in the fact of extreme adversity shows his character? Why did everyone in authority support not awarding McNeish the Polar Medal? Why hasn't anyone stepped forward since that time to retroactively awarded McNish a Polar Medal? If anyone needs a wiki-opinion or two posted about him, this guy does. History has disagreed with McNeish. This and other opinions need to be brought out in the article. My post may not have done this properly, but the solution is to modify it, not delete it. -- Jreferee 13:59, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I deleted the second paragraph of the lead mostly because it gave the same information as the body of the article, rather than because it was POV; the lead could perhaps be expanded slightly but I felt that was overdoing it for such a short article. Most of the rest of the valuable information you added was left: everything except points 4 and 8 was either left or already in the article. 4 is covered in the Mrs. Chippy article, and 8 is not supported by the sources (we could make a long list of things that people didn't do). I rewrote some of it because it didn't flow well where it was inserted. The last sentences of the lead: "Further, more appears to be known about McNeish's cat, Mrs. Chippy than they do about McNeish. McNeish's troubles may have been foreshadowed by his naming his cat Mrs. Chippy, where the cat actually was a male tabby." were both unverifiable/untrue and melodramatic, and the sentence about the misspelling being "intentional as payback for McNeish’s 1913 mutiny" was pure speculation. Having an opinion on the matter is fine (I agree he should be have been awarded the Polar Medal), but writing your opinions into the article is not. WP has a very clear policy on this, despite what you claim. Yomangani ^talk 15:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I returned to this article a month and a half after my above post. I checked the history on this talk page and was surprised to confirm to myself that I did write all that above regarding opinions. I learned a lot in a month and a half since I wrote the above. The only fact I too would now have kept was "his naming his cat Mrs. Chippy, where the cat actually was a male tabby" which you did. Thanks for your edits, Yomangani. -- Jreferee 14:46, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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External links modified

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I have just modified one external link on Harry McNish. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070901213706/http://karorihistory.org.nz/stockade39_HarryMcNeish.htm to http://karorihistory.org.nz/stockade39_HarryMcNeish.htm

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Conflicting/false information

In the South Georgia section, the following information is provided:

"It was clear that McNish and Vincent could not continue, so Shackleton left them in the care of Timothy McCarthy."

"Putting McNish in command of the remaining men, Shackleton charged him to wait for relief and if none had come by the end of winter to attempt to sail to the east coast."

These two paragraphs hold conflicting information and the latter is probably false. In Ernest Shackelton's account "South" it is also stated that McCarthy was left in charge of the remaining men in South Georgia. Reference: p.381 in South by Earnest Shackelton. 240D:1E:237:DC00:81EC:8EB:AB4E:D5BC (talk) 11:46, 16 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:URFA/2020

File:James Caird en.svg is unsourced. A455bcd9 (talk) 07:24, 3 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]