Talk:Gothic persecution of Christians

the number "26"

This is something that probably cannot be fixed in any other way than by going to the primary sources directly. The fact is that modern Orthodox calendars mention "twenty-six martyred Goths". It seems (source?) that the number 26 was the number of martyrs whose remains were transferred to Syria, but neither are there 26 known names, nor was the number of victims 26 (but much larger, apparently 308?). After transferring the relics, Gaatha herself was martyred and now is counted among the 26. But 21 known names plus Gaatha only gives 22. Then there is Constans, possibly a name later given to the one anonymous martyr who turned up at the tent late, plus Gaatha's children Agathos and Ducilda (who historically weren't martyred at all). This still only makes 25, so I don't know where the "26" comes from. Quality of sources is very shoddy. oca.org manages to claim within a single section that Saint Dulcida the princess was one of twenty-six martyrs who were killed by the Goths around the year 375 and that St Duclida died in peace (and it's their religion). Unless I can still find this resolved in a secondary source somewhere, it would be an academic-level task to go through all the martyrologies to figure out how exactly this number "26" developed. --dab (𒁳) 11:24, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

It seems that 21 martyrs are known by name, plus there are five whose names aren't known but who are otherwise "identified" (the four children, plus the anonymous man who turned up for the execution), giving 26 already. Not sure if there is also the claim that the remains of these 26 specifically was transported by Gaatha (in reality, if you burn a tent with 300 people inside, you will afterwards not be able to sort out remains individually). The fact that Gaatha was later also martyred apparently caused some confusion as martyrologies tried to enumerate the names of "26 martyred Goths". This is plausible, but it still needs better references. --dab (𒁳) 11:45, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

Article Bias

The tone and word choice of this article show active bias by the writer. Stating various converted Goths were 'martyred' injects personal and theological opinion into what should be an objective piece. That they may have been or are viewed as martyrs is information that adds historical value. However, stating flatly that they are is incorrect, biased and should be removed or rephrased. They are not martyrs for me. They are just victims. If indeed they existed. This whole article needs better sourcing and reworking. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.104.148.66 (talk) 17:42, 17 October 2014 (UTC)

Winguric

Where does this name come from? Sozomen is cited for the claim that Athanaric appointed Winguric, but the specific chapter cited (Eccl. Hist. 6.37) doesn't mention anyone named Winguric, nor does it talk about Crimea. The name Winguric doesn't appear anywhere in the Ecclesiastical History and I can't find it in any other contemporary source (such as Ammianus Marcellinus or Socrates Scholasticus). The name Jungerich is mentioned on the page of the Orthodox Church in America linked at the bottom, is this where this name comes from? If so, then why has it been turned into Winguric and why is Sozomen cited instead of the OCA? 2001:985:B649:1:A160:6A56:A106:4C65 (talk) 23:25, 28 June 2021 (UTC)

According to T. D. Barnes (1974), "Another Forty Missing Persons (A. D. 260–395)", Phoenix 28(2), 231, Winguric is named in three menologia. Zeev Rubin (1981), "The conversion of the Visigoths to Christianity", Museum Helveticum 38(1), 39 n45, identifies the Winguric of the Menologion of Basil II with Athanaric's envoys of Sozomen 6.37. Jerzy Strzelczyk, "Visigothic Society of the 4th Century in the Light of the Passion of Saint Saba the Goth", Eos 68 (1980), 383 & n45, cites the Synaxarion of Constantinople and explains why the Gothic martyrs' narrative is considered reliable. Srnec (talk) 00:35, 29 June 2021 (UTC)