Talk:Ghost of Tsushima

Lots of games can be played in multiple languages, and "specialist sources"...?

@OceanHok: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your edit summary's basic lack of relation the content of your revert was the result of the limit on edit summaries' character-count, but it would be appreciated if you could explain your edit in a bit more detail on the talk page in such circumstances. Here are some points related to your edit that you might want to explain but were not touched upon in your edit summary:

• Eurogamer is not a specialist source on Japanese history, but that's not even related to your most recent revert, so it's not clear why you brought up the claim that it's a "specialist source in VG"
• The fact that the North American version of the game can (apparently?) be played in Japanese doesn't seem noteworthy -- lots of games have such an option.
• That the Japanese version of the game is different from the English version is interesting and probably noteworthy, but the Eurogamer source doesn't seem to make such a point or even be aware of it.
• Wikipedia should not be making the claim that the developers consulted "cultural experts" in order to make the game "accurate to Japanese history and culture" without a source actually written by someone qualified to make such a claim. We have a large number of articles on the Man'yōshū, but to the best of my knowledge none of them cite popular media sources for the clearly bogus claim that it is "Japan's oldest poetry anthology".

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 13:51, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

• Ghost is a modern 2020 video game, a fictional piece of work. It is not history. This statement has nothing to do with Japanese history, because it concerns only how Sucker Punch made the game. In this case, a WP:VG/RS source like Eurogamer is the specialist source, because it is about video game development, NOT Japanese history.
• Actually most western made games don't have Japanese dub, and in the case of Ghost, it is inspired by samurai cinema. Therefore, mentioning that the game has Japanese dub is probably noteworthy (or else Eurogamer won't run a unique article for it)
• That the Japanese version of the game is different from the English version is interesting and probably noteworthy, but the Eurogamer source doesn't seem to make such a point or even be aware of it. - Even I am not aware of it. I am not sure what's the problem. Are you expecting the source to cover everything in this game? Eurogamer wants to run a story that informs players Japanese audio is available. They did just that and no more (which is aboslutely fine). If you can find a source that supports this, then go ahead and add this. Otherwise, I am not sure what is the issue.
• The claim is made by the developers (Sucker Punch) who made the game. They claimed that they have consulted cultural experts, and they are qualified to make that statement. Vice reported on that. I see no issue. They are certainly not lying.
• All in all, I think you are a bit misguided here. Ghost of Tsushima is not about history or about literature. It is a video game (a type of pop culture) that was merely inspired by Japanese history. You don't need specialist source that deal with actual history because it is irrelevant. OceanHok (talk) 15:46, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

• The idea that the statement that the developers ensure[d] that the title would be an accurate representation of feudal Japan has "nothing to do with Japanese history" is clearly wrong. Wikipedia articles on films, novels, video games, etc. that touch on Japanese history all have to represent Japanese history as accurately as our Japanese history articles, even if it is only a passing reference; if you cannot find a reliable scholarly source on Japanese, then the wording needs to be altered to reflect the source, such as according to an article in Eurogamer, the developers said that...
• I assume you mean the North American releases of most "western made games"? Do you have a source for any of this? I grew up in Ireland and I distinctly recall Asterix and the Great Rescue being playable in multiple European languages, and my point was not specifically about "Japanese dubs". If you are not sure what the issue is with the difference between the Japanese and English versions of the game, then I would encourage you to read our articles on waka (poetry) and haiku/hokku/haikai.
• If our article actually made that claim, that would be fine; but it doesn't say Sucker Punch said that they had consulted cultural experts; it says Sucker Punch consulted cultural experts.
• Your claim only applies to pop culture articles that don't currently make claims about scholarly topics in Wikipedia's voice. Please rewrite the relevant portions of the article if you are going to use this argument.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:05, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

All that being said, I'm tired of this now. I'm going to go write other articles. If you want to use my advice above to improve this article, that's fine. If you don't, that's your business. I would, however, encourage you to be more careful about removing maintenance tags in the future. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:12, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

This will never be a scholarly article so I am not sure why we are having this discussion at all. There is absolutely no information about actual Japanese history (not even passing mention) in this article that demands historians' verification. I also cannot find RS that says the Japanese version of the game is different so that's original research. OceanHok (talk) 09:54, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

All Wikipedia articles are (supposed to be) scholarly articles. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:41, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

• @OceanHok: Again, your edit summary doesn't make sense -- not only does the Connell interview show that the developers were publicizing the poetry thing, and the fact that the Japanese and English versions were different, at least several days before the game was released (actually the Connell interview talks about the "Japanese version" as in the version available in Japan -- it doesn't talk about the Japanese dub of the game available in North America), but even if what you said were accurate it would just mean that pre-release sources that were contradicted by more recent sources would now be considered unreliable. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 03:54, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Additionally, you are continuing to turn WP:BURDEN on its head -- I didn't try to add anything to this article at first, and what happened was that you removed maintenance tags without performing your due diligence or providing a policy-based reasoning. It is quite unbecoming for someone who has been editing Wikipedia as long as you to be sincerely misunderstanding basic Wikipedia policy on this level. The content you added and are still defending is not attributed to sources that are reliable for said content -- the BURDEN is on the one adding or maintaining the content, never on the one removing it. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:02, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I really have no idea why we are having this discussion. Eurogamer mentions nothing about the differences between the American and the Japanese version, so it is not used to support that fact as a reference. The fact that the English version of the game comes with Japanese dub is not relevant to the fact that the Japanese version has a different type of poem or whatever. They are two separate facts and therefore, required two separate sources for verification. Even if they are regional differences, Japanese audio is still available (Jin is still speaking Japanese. I don't think he is suddenly speaking Chinese or Korean when he recites the poem), so the content from the Eurogamer source is still correct. Your source supports the differences between versions well, and the Eurogamer souce supports the Japanese audio part well. Failed verification is not a problem (Eurogamer stated it clearly), and better verification is not needed (because it is a WP:VG/RS already).

I was talking about WP:BURDEN because you take a jab at me with your edit summary, saying that "No idea why this was invoked on the talk page or why OceanHok didn't try a simple Google search before claiming that no reliable sources were available for the claim". It was you who wanted to add the poem part, not me. It was not my responsibility to do a "simple Google search" when you failed to provide a source here at the talk page (and the souce you provided later when you add this to the page is in Japanese. How the hell am I supposed to find that?).

If the only difference is that Jin recites different poems in this quest, then this difference is slight and trivial. Most RS would not remark on such small and trival details. It is good that you find a Japanese souce that covers it, but naturally, most sources won't care about this. This is an action game, not a reflection on literature. OceanHok (talk) 05:16, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

It was you who wanted to add the poem part, not me. You are turning my comment on its head -- what I said was "if X is to be included in the article, then f(X) needs to be included as well, since X is not by itself interesting or encyclopedic information" -- my first choice was obviously always to simply remove X. It was not my responsibility to do a "simple Google search" It is very much your responsibility to provide sufficient sourcing for content you wish to include in the article, including any peripheral content necessary to meet WP:ENC and WP:WEIGHT. the souce you provided later when you add this to the page is in Japanese. How the hell am I supposed to find that? Maybe don't engage in Wikipedia debates over use of the Japanese language if you are unable or unwilling to engage with Japanese sources and editors who can read them? If the only difference is that Jin recites different poems in this quest, then this difference is slight and trivial You cannot make that assertion if you are not going to do the research to understand how significant this difference is. most sources won't care about this Actually, I haven't found a single Japanese source apparently written by someone who was aware of the change (most Japanese video game reviewers, naturally, play the game in Japanese and don't engage in critical translation analysis) that didn't make a big deal out of it. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:33, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

I never intend to add the part about the differences between Japanese version and the English version into the article. So that's certainly not my responsibility to provide sufficient sourcing for it. The only issue I have with you is your edit summary, which I believed is not written in good faith. I don't oppose using Japanese sources in the article but your suggestion that I was expected to find and understand Japanese sources just by Google search is absurd and ridiculous. I am not sure what is the entire point of this discussion at all. The only two points I disagree with you throughout this discussion is your judgement that this article needs specialist sources and your claim that Eurogamer/Vice are not good sources. I am ok with you adding whatever you want into this article as long as you back your content up with reliable sources. OceanHok (talk) 10:40, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

Hashimoto source

As far as I can tell, Hashimoto is not historian of Japanese politics or of cinema, nor a professional political commentator, and everything I've always read about Kurosawa has indicated quite the opposite of the conclusions Hashimoto's article draws -- Kurosawa was a generally left-leaning, pro-union film-maker whose Tora no O o Fumu Otokotachi was banned by the wartime government, and many of his later films are obvious left-wing, anti-samurai polemics. It seems like Hashimoto is using this video game as a jumping-off point to make an argument about contemporary Japanese politics, but unwittingly (pardon the pun) smears a famous mid-20th-century leftist in the process; our article doesn't directly include the "the game inherits this from Kurosawa films" claim, but it seems our use of the word "unwittingly" is meant to allude to this.

TLDR, there are two issues here: Hashimoto is being cited as a reliable source for commentary for which he is perhaps not considered a reliable source, and one of his main assertions, which we adopt kinda-indirectly, is demonstrably false.

Thoughts?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:26, 12 October 2020 (UTC)

• I can't say for certain, but I think you're misreading the text of the wiki article here, and indeed, Hashimoto in the Polygon article does not suggest that Kurosawa was right-wing. Rather, I read the wiki article text as saying that while the game is a well-intentioned homage to Kurosawa's work, it falls short insofar as it ends up representing samurai as purely honor-bound and righteous defenders of feudal Japan. This comes across perhaps more clearly in the cited Polygon article: "He rallies his men with this reminder of what comprises the belief of the samurai: They will die for their country, they will die for their people, but doing so will bring them honor. And honor, tradition, and courage, above all else, are what make the samurai. Except that wasn’t always the belief, it wasn’t what Kurosawa bought whole cloth, and none of the message can be untangled from how center- and alt-right politicians in modern Japan talk about “the code” today." Kurosawa clearly did not make films about how samurai are all good, righteous honor-bound people who put everyone else above themselves, and the criticism is that Ghost of Tsushima is this way. In terms of the relevance of the material, I think that a cultural critic of video games is right to make criticisms of games on a political basis and that criticism is relevant as a Wikipedia reader. They don't need to be a political historian to make the assessment they are making: that the game (a thing which they presumably are considered an expert on) presents a view of samurai that is politically distinct from what Kurosawa himself did (which is an assessment that can be made even just by reading a plot synopsis of some of Kurosawa's films).

2601:197:600:C:242D:26AB:B8FE:A39D (talk) 18:25, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

Inclusion of pronunciation respelling and inaccurate (impossible!) IPA key in lead sentence

@OceanHok and Nardog: I agree with OceanHok's removal of the pronunciation key. The primary rational for maintaining it -- that a lot of Americans and consequently other westerners mispronounce a lot of other Japanese words by stressing the penultimate syllable -- doesn't make sense, since the same people are going to mispronounce the place-name in this game's name as those who mispronounce the name of the actual place, and it's no more wrong here. And given that the content was removed more than a month ago, having been initially added months/years (?) before the game was released when hardly anyone was monitoring the article, means the WP:STATUSQUO argument also doesn't work.

Moreover, while I can't establish when exactly the current version was added, certainly the one that was there the longest (having been present on 6 March and 20 June), was /ˈtsuʃiˌmɑː/ -- the claim that /ˈtsuːʃiːmə/ TSOO-shee-mə is the legitimate status quo is a little hard to swallow, and I don't even know how to pronounce "ˈtsuːʃiː"; "ʃiː" definitely is not the correct Japanese pronunciation of シ, and how does one "stress" ツ while also lengthening シ? Even if a pronunciation key for this one word is to be included, it shouldn't take up as much space in the lead sentence than the title , and an explanation should be provided for the change from /ˈtsuʃiˌ/ to /ˈtsuːʃiː/ (I can take or leave the change from /ɑː/ to /ə/ -- it's a "given" that this is how it is mispronounced in English). I would also prefer to see a reliable source explicitly claiming that the first syllable is supposed to be stressed in English, or some such -- I'm not going to sit through a 40-minute YouTube video unless I'm given a specific timestamp to check, but would be right in assuming that it doesn't verify the specific content claim so much as showing some people pronouncing it a certain way?

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:17, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

Just searched Nardog's user name on the page history, which led me to found exactly when the current version was added.[1] It was removed 43 days, 15 hours, 39 minutes later.[2] That version then remained intact for 37 days, 1 hour, 59 minutes.[3] Having come this far, I figured I'd check when the original was added, last December, when the game wasn't out yet and probably far fewer people were watching this article. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 11:25, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

(edit conflict) The notation was first added in December and removed in September, so just in terms of whether to have a pronunciation in the article at all, whatever its exact content might be, the status quo is to have one. /ˈtsuʃiˌmɑː/ is an impossible notation at least in {{IPAc-en}}, because the Help:IPA/English key defines /u/ and /i/ as weak vowels that can appear only in unstressed prevocalic or word-final positions.

You can hear developers of the game pronounce Tsushima in the video at 9:42, 9:44, 10:42, 11:02, and 13:48, and they all pronounce it /ˈtsuːʃiːmə/ (Wang is apparently a non-native speaker so it's not quite the same, but roughly). On YouGlish, you can hear English speakers' pronunciation of Tsushima is not consistent, especially with regard to the placement of stress. So the English pronunciation of Tsushima according to the developers themselves is a useful piece of information for readers.

We're not talking about the Japanese word but the English word of Japanese origin (and /ʃiː/ is as close as English gets to Japanese [ɕi]; as Help:IPA/English notes, the length mark doesn't mean the sound is consistently long in production—it's just underlying representation). There are many, many English words with /iː/ following a stressed syllable: Even if you disregard compounds like heartbeat, mainstream, seaweed, spreadsheet, sunbeam, there are axes, concrete, feces, herpes, hygiene, morpheme, morphine, nares, phoneme, rabies, series, species, etc. Nardog (talk) 12:30, 19 October 2020 (UTC)

So, you are not going to address any of my points and just talk past me? The main thing you say that I hadn't already rebutted before you said it is We're not talking about the Japanese word but the English word of Japanese origin, but that's patently ridiculous -- it's not "an English word" but rather the name of a place that actually exists in Japan, and it's pretty clear that there isn't one "the English pronunciation". You can clearly hear at 9:42 and 9:44 that he most definitely is not saying /ʃiː/. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 01:48, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Addendum: The first several examples in that YouGlish link clearly show people talking about an unrelated battle that took place in the Russo-Japanese War, etc., mostly pronouncing it as /tsuːˈʃiːmə/, obviously very differently from the game developers in the cited YouTube clip. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:20, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Precisely because there isn't one "the English pronunciation" of the name of the island, it benefits readers to spell out the English pronunciation of the name of the game, which was made by an American company, according to the developers.

Then what is he saying? It sounds like a tense high front vowel (i.e. /iː/ in Help:IPA/English's notation) to me. Nardog (talk) 18:35, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

To my ear it sounds more like a schwa /ə/ (Chris Zimmerman at 13:48). Maybe /i/ (more Jason Connell at 9:42 and 9:44). Definitely not /iː/ -- should I edit the article to force readers to pronounce it the way I think Connell is pronouncing it and to say that your pronunciation is "wrong"? And actually, "the pronunciation" used by "the developers" as you point to differs between them -- Joanna Wong is apparently a native Mandarin speaker, and her pronunciation is slightly different from that of Jason Connell. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 00:01, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

Instead of dwelling into academic discussion about how we should pronounce Tsushima, getting the pronounciation right is not the key point of this article. This discussion should happen in the actual article about Tsushima Island, which doesn't have the IPA pronounciation in the lead (unlike Tokyo or Osaka). OceanHok (talk) 15:54, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

This is a game made by English-speaking people working for an American company that bears an English title, one word in which is not familiar to most English speakers. So of course the pronunciation by the people who made it is relevant for this article, especially if it disagrees with an established pronunciation or if there's no established pronunciation. Nardog (talk) 15:23, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Again, /iː/ in {{IPAc-en}} doesn't represent an invariably long vowel, it's just the phonemic notation for the FLEECE vowel. /i/ is impossible in this position because it represents a situation where there's a dialectal variation between /iː/ and /ɪ/ in an unstressed prevocalic or morpheme-final position, as exemplified by happy and mediocre in Help:IPA/English. @Aeusoes1, LiliCharlie, J. 'mach' wust, Sol505000, and Wolfdog: What do you hear at 9:42, 9:44, 10:42, 11:02, and 13:48 in this video? Nardog (talk) 15:23, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

@Nardog: [ˈsuʃim, ˈsuʃimə, ˈsuʃimə, ˈsuʃimə, ˈsuʃɪmə], or using our system [ˈsuːʃiːm, ˈsuːʃiːmə, ˈsuːʃiːmə, ˈsuːʃiːmə, ˈsuːʃɪmə] (the length marks can be a bit confusing, yes). But the woman sounds like a (very proficient but still) non-native speaker of English to me (or am I trippin'?) Sol505000 (talk) 15:41, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I hear the fleece vowel, but I don't think the material is reliable enough to use as a source. We don't need IPA, but some sort of written pronunciation is going to be better than relying on our ears, which is a form of original research. — Ƶ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 15:48, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree in principle, except that written representations by non-experts are rarely usable as they often neglect to indicate stress and vowel reduction and that we do often cite audio recordings as sources for names in the absence of better sources. But given the response in this thread, I acknowledge a better source is needed to reinstate the notation (whatever its form would be). Nardog (talk) 16:06, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Nardog, did you miss the part where I pointed out how one of your cited sources clearly showed a bunch of people emphasizing the second syllable? Are you saying that this article should explicitly say that they are wrong? From a Japanese perspective, they are, but you are explicitly talking about "the English pronunciation". Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:10, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

Oh, wait -- I see that in your message to the five people with no prior involvement in this article but with whom you presumably had prior contact elsewhere you were careful not to mention the YouGlish link, so I guess you did notice. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 23:16, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

In the very first sentence where I linked to YouGlish, I said, On YouGlish, you can hear English speakers' pronunciation of Tsushima is not consistent, especially with regard to the placement of stress. So the English pronunciation of Tsushima according to the developers themselves is a useful piece of information for readers. I also said, Precisely because there isn't one "the English pronunciation" of the name of the island, it benefits readers to spell out the English pronunciation of the name of the game, which was made by an American company, according to the developers, and in response to OceanHok, the pronunciation by the people who made it is relevant for this article, especially if it disagrees with an established pronunciation or if there's no established pronunciation. The variation in English speakers' pronunciation has been the basis of my argument for including the developers' pronunciation in the article from the beginning, and I repeatedly made this clear. I didn't mention YouGlish as a source but precisely to demonstrate that a bunch of people stress the second syllable—unlike the developers. My only source is the video, which had been cited in the article from 29 July to 11 September.

I pinged active editors competent in phonetics and phonology because the discussion came down to the identification and transcription of a specific vowel in a specific recording, which requires a certain amount of expertise (such as knowing the differences between a phone, a phoneme, and a diaphoneme) while my neutral notice at Help talk:IPA/English had spawned no response. Granted, I should have dropped another note or tried another venue rather than pinging specific editors. But Sol505000 did not fully confirm my perception and Aeusoes1 opposed inclusion from a verifiability point of view, which I found persuasive, so I withdrew my argument for now. The ping was what ultimately persuaded me to yield, so one wonders what accusing me of bad-faith canvassing achieves. Nardog (talk) 16:41, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

We don't take the developer's pronunciation as the official pronunciation as the game's title. Even if we include IPA in the lead, it should be the one that you can find in a dictionary. But as I have mentioned above, if we are already using the correct IPA, there is no point mentioning it here, because this piece of information should be put in Tsushima Island rather than here. OceanHok (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2020 (UTC)

I came here from the ANI thread and it caught my attention. After reading this discussion, I agree with OceanHok. This isn't the place for IPA, its place is at the article on the real-world location. In any case, if the developers' pronunciations are inconsistent and there isn't a correct pronunciation in English, there is no other option than using the actual correct pronunciation of the word in the original Japanese. El Millo (talk) 07:01, 24 October 2020 (UTC)

I agree 100% with OceanHok and El Millo above. Softlavender (talk) 07:40, 26 October 2020 (UTC)

Add Lead Designers and Programmer of GoT to Infobox

These people should be included in the infobox. They were removed by TheDeviantPro on 25 December 2020, he said "not the leads", but multiple sources say they are lead developers, such as below:

• Ian Jun Wei Chiew = 1. Lead Concept Artist at Sucker Punch Productions, Link, 2. "Provided Art Leadership to the concept team through planning, managing, recruiting, training and providing feedback to individual artists for the majority of its development." Link 3. on PS Blog it also says Lead Concept Artist, link.
• Adrian Bentley = 1. Sucker Punch's lead engineer programmer Adrian Bentley, Link, 2. Sucker Punch Productions lead engine programmer, link
• Joanna Wang = 1. Environment Art Lead at Sucker Punch, link

It's not clearly listed in the game credits though. - Artanisen (talk) 07:00, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

They should not be included as per template guideline. The Lead Concept Artist is not the Lead Artist as they only do as the title suggests, the concept art. The person who is credited as Lead Artist or Art Director should only be included, not the Lead Concept Artist. The same goes with the Environment Art Lead. Lead Engineer Programmer and Lead Engine Programmer only programs the game engine, we only should include people with the role of Lead Programmer or Technical Director as they oversee all aspects of the game's programming not just the engine programming. TheDeviantPro (talk) 09:48, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

Okay, so who is the Lead Artist and Lead Programmer? - Artanisen (talk) 20:48, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

The Lead Artist is Jason Connell in this case because he is the game's Art Director, if no one else is credited as Lead Artist or Art Director then Connell should only be include as per template guidelines and no else have been credited as such. No one is credited as Lead Programmer or Technical Director in both the game credits or in interviews, so we keep the programmer field empty. TheDeviantPro (talk) 00:39, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

Alright, I did some research, but can't find the name of the engine. - Artanisen (talk) 11:21, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

References

"based on" (and "Japanese mythology"?)

@OceanHok: I'm not sure what to make of this edit. Did you just notice my edit, not have a problem with its content, but decide to add a citation (whose title, to a reader who doesn't know the difference between myth/folklore and "mythology", could be interpreted as contradicting my edit) anyway just in case? I think this information is WP:BLUE as long as some source for Legends is cited, and there isn't actually a contradiction between our wording and VG24/7's, but if the text were being rewritten from scratch using information from that article exclusively, "inspired by" shouldn't be changed to "based on", so I think if we are going to add a redundant source for this sentence in particular, it would be better to use one that says "based on". Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 05:27, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Awards refs

@Javadhidden: you've added a couple of named refs to Awards, but didn't include any definition for them, so they're broken. Please fill them out with where you found the information. -- Fyrael (talk) 16:29, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

Iki Island

How soon are we to expect someone to make a section on Iki Island? If no one has had plans to make it, I can do it when I finish the expansion. - D

GOCE Copyedit

I have completed a GOCE copyedit of the article. Below are a few potential issues I have identified:

• Be aware of WP:NOTGUIDE. I removed a sentence related to "recommendations" on stealth, but there are other potential problems (e.g., a listing of the various stances) whose inclusion I will leave to the discretion of editors more familiar with the subject. I am by no means an expert on the subject, but this article seems to be pushing the line between "explains gameplay" and "fancruft" to me.
• Suggest possibly adding a map of Tsushima Island or explaining that the island has been split into three parts using canals. The phrase The three islands of Tsushima [Island] is a bit disorienting without this knowledge IMO.
• Sourcing may not be up to snuff - For instance, I looked at FN13 to try and figure out what was meant by "platforming", and I couldn't find any mention of the mechanic in the source. Probably worth doing several spotchecks before/during a GAN.
• Unlike the single-player campaign, Legends is based on Japanese folklore and mythology... - How is the single-player mode not based on Japanese folklore/myth? There are references to Shinto in the article's Gameplay section.
• The Plot section seems a bit disjointed. For instance, there is no explanation of why Ryuzo and the straw hats are suddenly destitute and starving.
• How did Jin's actions severely violate the samurai code?
• The sentence on haiku/waka in "Setting and narrative" contradicts footnote A.
• What's a karma meter? If it's not easy to explain in prose, it might not be worth mentioning in the article. I believe I've clarified this in prose(?) - Feel free to rework.

That's all I've identified, but there could still be some things that are unclear to someone unfamiliar with video games. Someone who knows the game well should certainly take a second look at the article to make sure I haven't butchered any of the details. Besides that, please feel free to ping me in a discussion here if you have any questions or concerns! AviationFreak💬 02:32, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

@AviationFreak: - Thank you for the copyediting! OceanHok (talk) 11:12, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Ghost of Tsushima/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: ProtoDrake (talk · contribs) 18:50, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi, I'll take this on. If I'm no back with comments/review by Monday next week, ping me. --ProtoDrake (talk) 18:50, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

@OceanHok: I can't find anything that stops this. Anything that might've held it back has already been addressed. Instant Pass. --ProtoDrake (talk) 11:58, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by 97198 (talk) 07:46, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

(

• Comment or view
• Article history

)

• ... that the setting of the game Ghost of Tsushima takes place during the Mongol invasion of Tsushima? Source: https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2020/07/ghost_of_tsushima_dev_considered_pirates_and_rob_roy_before_feudal_japan_setting
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Tyrone Davis (American football)

Improved to Good Article status by OceanHok (talk). Nominated by Onegreatjoke (talk) at 03:41, 9 November 2022 (UTC).

• Terrific article, congratulations! Promoted to GA within a week of nomination, so new enough and long enough. Extensively cited using reliable sources, neutrally phrased, no copyvio detected. Hook is cited and compelling. QPQ done. Approved for DYK, but can I suggest rephrasing the sentence slightly for concision? "... that the game Ghost of Tsushima is set during the Mongol invasion of Tsushima?" Topshelver (talk) 23:25, 11 November 2022 (UTC)
• GA not withstanding, pushsquare.com doesn't seem like a WP:RS to me. In fact, they cite https://blog.playstation.com/2020/07/16/ghost-of-tsushima-the-road-to-launch/ as their source, and that's certainly not a RS; it's a blog post by the founder of the company that made this game. -- RoySmith (talk) 02:42, 14 November 2022 (UTC)

Hi. Push Square is a reliable source per WP:VG/RS. PlayStation Blog is a primary source. OceanHok (talk) 11:23, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

Premeditated Chaos it sounds like you know more about gaming sources than I do; could I ask you to opine here? -- RoySmith (talk) 13:56, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

WP:VGRS lists Push Square as reliable; there's no reason to think it isn't, the WikiProject is fairly fussy about what they greenlight there. Additionally, primary sources aren't unreliable by default, as long as we're using them in accordance with WP:PRIMARY. In this case, Push Square is quoting what the devs said about the development of the game - why would we consider their own description of their own creative process to be unreliable? ♠PMC♠ (talk) 14:06, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Restoring tick. -- RoySmith (talk) 14:17, 21 November 2022 (UTC)