Talk:Georgios Sinas

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Biography

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Albanian NPOV and Vandalism of the article

Please be aware that various Albanian users are vandalising the article by changing his name in Albanian form and his nationality to Albanian. Please stick to the sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.66.66.177 (talk) 08:07, 17 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

What calendar system was his birthdate in

Is it November 20, 1783 (Julian), or November 20, 1783 (Gregorian), that's the point, I don't know since in 1783, Greece was still using the Julian calendar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.203.0.133 (talk) 10:55, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnicity

Can someone tell me which sources where used to justify the phrasing "...most sources agree that he was of Greek descent"? Because I checked the cited ones, and not one of them backs this extraordinary claim. Ahmet Q. (talk) 19:45, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Read again.^[1]^[2]^[3]^[4]^[5]^[6] Othon I (talk) 19:57, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Othon I: you are also editing the other article about the Sinas family. The sources there mention an Aromanian origin: The Sinas family came from the Aromanian settlement of Moscopole in southern Albania.^[7] The son of Georgios Sinas,^[8] also a benefactor and diplomat, Sinas expanded his father's business. He has been described as an Aromanian^[9]^[10] or as a Greek.^[11]^[12]^[13]^[14] --Maleschreiber (talk) 20:04, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Both ascribed ethnicities have been mentioned in both articles. You can explain to Ahmet why the majority of the sources indicated a Greek ethnicity because from the ones I have posted here he said as you can see above that none states that. I mean at least a minimum of competency in reading sources should be there for an experienced editor like Ahmet. Othon I (talk) 20:09, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Gerő, András; Poór, János (1997). Budapest: a history from its beginnings to 1998. Social Science Monographs. p. 83. ISBN 0-88033-359-6. In George Sina, a Viennese banker of Greek extraction, he found his financier; in William Tierney Clark his designer and in Adam Clark his engineer
^ Kohl, Johann Georg (1844). Austria: Vienna, Prague, Hungary, Bohemia, and the Danube; Galicia, Styria, Moravia, Bukovina, and the Military Frontier. Chapman and Hall. p. 126. The principal banker, Sina, is a Greek. Since the late improvements in the navigation of the Danube, which have made it possible to travel from Vienna
^ Pfeiffer, Ida (2008). A Woman's Journey Round the World. BiblioBazaar. p. 514. ISBN 978-0-554-23516-5. The small observatory was built by Baron Sina, the well-known banker in Vienna, who is by birth a Greek. The royal palace, which is of modern date, is built of brilliant white marble, in the form of a large quadrangle
^ Landes, David S. (2006). Dynasties: fortunes and misfortunes of the world's great family businesses. Viking. p. 64. ISBN 0-670-03338-3. Baron Georg von Sina, banker of Greek extraction and longtime pillar of Austrian finance, joined them in this endeavor, while gaining the valuable
^ Cameron, Rondo E.; Bovykin, Ivanovich, Valery; Ananʹich, B. V. (1991). International banking, 1870-1914. Oxford University Press US. p. 328. ISBN 0-19-506271-X. A banker named Sina of Greek origin, who was known to have good French contact.
^ Birēs, Manos G.; Kardamitsē-Adamē, Maro (2004). Neoclassical Architecture in Greece. Getty Publications. p. 96. ISBN 978-0-89236-775-7. Georgios Sinas, an expatriate Greek resident in Vienna
^ Chatziioannou, Maria (2010). "Mediterranean Pathways of Greek Merchants to Victorian England". The Historical Review. 7: 218. The success of the migrant-entrepreneur is not only illustrated by such impressive careers as the Rothschilds of Jewish background, or, in the Greek case, that of S. Sinas in Vienna, originally from the Vlach-populated Moschopolis, or A. Syngros and the Ralli brothers from Chios, but can be identified in strategic choices of medium-sized merchants as well
^ Killy & Vierhaus 2005, p. 346: "Sina, Georg Simon, from 1832 onwards Baron von Hodos und Kisidia, Austrian banker, * 20.11.1782, Moschopolis; † 18.5.1856, Vienna. S., the son of a merchant, worked mainly in the banking sector. Together with Salomon Mayer von → Rothschild, he was involved in all state loans and their associated share issues from 1830 onwards. He owned numerous domains in Lower Austria, Bohemia, Moravia and Hungary and possessed shares in a large number of financial and economic ventures. Among other things, he was deputy governor of the Austrian National Bank and president of the State Railway Company. He played a leading role in the expansion of the Hungarian railway network and financed the construction of the Chain Bridge over the Danube between Buda and Pest, which was built between 1842 and 1849. After Rothschild, S. was regarded as the second richest man in Austria. He was the father of Simon Georg → S."
^ Kahl, Thede (2003). "Aromanians in Greece: Minority or Vlach-speaking Greeks?" (PDF). Jahrbücher für Geschichte und Kultur Südosteuropas. 5: 205–219.
^ Richard Clogg (20 June 2002). A Concise History of Greece. p. 77: "a Hellenised Vlach whose family came from Moschopolis in southern Albania...": Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-00479-4.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location (link)
^ Cite error: The named reference :0 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Cite error: The named reference Moscow was invoked but never defined (see the help page).
^ Dent 2007, p. 9: "...Count Simon Sina, a banker, aristocrat and landowner of Greek origin, and one of the wealthiest men of his day. His father, George Sina had been a chief financier backing the construction of the Chain Bridge."
^ Gill, John (2011). Athens. Andrews UK Limited. p. 47. ISBN 978-1-908493-48-4. The expatriate Greek millionaire Baron Simon Sinas, then living in Vienna, [...]

There is no majority in sources and consensus is not so much decided by counting publications, but by finding sources which discuss bibliography in terms of a "majority". I think that ethnically this family was Aromanian like 2/3 of Moscopole/Voskopojë, but it doesn't mean much in terms of actual self-perception. Thus, I've contextualized the Boolean argument about ethnicity with the sentence: Regardless of their ethnic origin, they were part of the social-cultural Greek merchant class which maintained close relations with the newly founded Greek state of their era. --Maleschreiber (talk) 21:42, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Gerő, András; Poór, János (1997). Budapest: a history from its beginnings to 1998. Social Science Monographs. p. 83. ISBN 0-88033-359-6. In George Sina, a Viennese banker of Greek extraction, he found his financier; in William Tierney Clark his designer and in Adam Clark his engineer

[2] Kohl, Johann Georg (1844). Austria: Vienna, Prague, Hungary, Bohemia, and the Danube; Galicia, Styria, Moravia, Bukovina, and the Military Frontier. Chapman and Hall. p. 126. The principal banker, Sina, is a Greek. Since the late improvements in the navigation of the Danube, which have made it possible to travel from Vienna

[3] Pfeiffer, Ida (2008). A Woman's Journey Round the World. BiblioBazaar. p. 514. ISBN 978-0-554-23516-5. The small observatory was built by Baron Sina, the well-known banker in Vienna, who is by birth a Greek. The royal palace, which is of modern date, is built of brilliant white marble, in the form of a large quadrangle

[4] Landes, David S. (2006). Dynasties: fortunes and misfortunes of the world's great family businesses. Viking. p. 64. ISBN 0-670-03338-3. Baron Georg von Sina, banker of Greek extraction and longtime pillar of Austrian finance, joined them in this endeavor, while gaining the valuable

[5] Cameron, Rondo E.; Bovykin, Ivanovich, Valery; Ananʹich, B. V. (1991). International banking, 1870-1914. Oxford University Press US. p. 328. ISBN 0-19-506271-X. A banker named Sina of Greek origin, who was known to have good French contact.

[6] Birēs, Manos G.; Kardamitsē-Adamē, Maro (2004). Neoclassical Architecture in Greece. Getty Publications. p. 96. ISBN 978-0-89236-775-7. Georgios Sinas, an expatriate Greek resident in Vienna

[7] Chatziioannou, Maria (2010). "Mediterranean Pathways of Greek Merchants to Victorian England". The Historical Review. 7: 218. The success of the migrant-entrepreneur is not only illustrated by such impressive careers as the Rothschilds of Jewish background, or, in the Greek case, that of S. Sinas in Vienna, originally from the Vlach-populated Moschopolis, or A. Syngros and the Ralli brothers from Chios, but can be identified in strategic choices of medium-sized merchants as well

[8] Killy & Vierhaus 2005, p. 346: "Sina, Georg Simon, from 1832 onwards Baron von Hodos und Kisidia, Austrian banker, * 20.11.1782, Moschopolis; † 18.5.1856, Vienna. S., the son of a merchant, worked mainly in the banking sector. Together with Salomon Mayer von → Rothschild, he was involved in all state loans and their associated share issues from 1830 onwards. He owned numerous domains in Lower Austria, Bohemia, Moravia and Hungary and possessed shares in a large number of financial and economic ventures. Among other things, he was deputy governor of the Austrian National Bank and president of the State Railway Company. He played a leading role in the expansion of the Hungarian railway network and financed the construction of the Chain Bridge over the Danube between Buda and Pest, which was built between 1842 and 1849. After Rothschild, S. was regarded as the second richest man in Austria. He was the father of Simon Georg → S."

[kahl-9] Kahl, Thede (2003). "Aromanians in Greece: Minority or Vlach-speaking Greeks?" (PDF). Jahrbücher für Geschichte und Kultur Südosteuropas. 5: 205–219.

[concise-10] Richard Clogg (20 June 2002). A Concise History of Greece. p. 77: "a Hellenised Vlach whose family came from Moschopolis in southern Albania...": Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0-521-00479-4.{{cite book}}: CS1 maint: location (link)

[:0-11] Cite error: The named reference :0 was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Moscow-12] Cite error: The named reference Moscow was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

[Dent-13] Dent 2007, p. 9: "...Count Simon Sina, a banker, aristocrat and landowner of Greek origin, and one of the wealthiest men of his day. His father, George Sina had been a chief financier backing the construction of the Chain Bridge."

[14] Gill, John (2011). Athens. Andrews UK Limited. p. 47. ISBN 978-1-908493-48-4. The expatriate Greek millionaire Baron Simon Sinas, then living in Vienna, [...]

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