Talk:George Toogood Smith

This article was nominated for deletion on 26 April 2019. The result of the discussion was keep.

George Toogood Smith has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
July 26, 2006	Articles for deletion	No consensus
May 28, 2008	Good article nominee	Listed

Current status: Good article

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Merge this with John Lennon article

I feel this should be merged with the existing John Lennon article. I don't think George Smith is notable enough to warrant his own article, the details in this could easily be integrated into John Lennon's article. --NeilEvans 18:29, 30 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree--Crestville 13:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think a merger with Mimi Smith is perfectly in order, possibly also with Julia Lennon to create a combined article on John Lennon's youth. ~ trialsanderrors 01:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

George now has his own citations, and he was just as important as Mimi (if not more so). --andreasegde 20:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I now disagree with myself, because George could go into Mimi's article. Most of the stuff here is in there already, but how would you rename Mimi's page? Mimi & the Milkman? Mimi & that bloke that had a horse and cart? :) Don't forget that Jim and Mary McCartney have no page at all... --andreasegde 09:31, 2 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

No, stop that, there's more to go in here. --andreasegde 14:38, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citations

Please stop using citations from books (Cynthia's) when the page cited mentions nothing about the edit. andreasegde 01:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC) —[reply]

Georgie-Porgy

I think George needs some work, because he deserves it. Read the bit about his brother who was killed in France. Poor blighter... --andreasegde 14:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

GA

Bugger this; this article should be a GA, if only for the fact that George helped Lennon find his creativity.--andreasegde (talk) 22:41, 22 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It has been nominated.--andreasegde (talk) 13:10, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GA review

The GA review of this article is currently taking place at /GA1, and is transcluded below.

GA review 1

Is there no image for the infobox? A nonfree one could be rationalised...

I have looked everywhere for one, but my search turned up nothing (not even in the books).--andreasegde (talk) 17:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Smith is recognised for...the impact Smith's death had on him." - when quoted like that it definitely sounds awkward! Needs some rewording

That has gone.--andreasegde (talk) 20:03, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Smith was tall and stocky, and operated the Smith family's dairy" - again sounds awkward with repetition...

Gone, but I thought it was important to say that it was the Smith family farm. --andreasegde (talk) 20:04, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Hohner Super Chromonica, a typical 12-hole chromatic harmonica, sometimes called a mouth organ" - (image) - what's this got to do with the text?

Smith was the first one to give Lennon a musical instrument - which was a harmonica, and is definitely mentioned in the text.--andreasegde (talk) 17:10, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Lennon would later meet Paul McCartney at the back of St. Peter's Church, and it is where a certain "Eleanor Rigby" is also buried.[25]" - this isn't really relevant to this article is it...?

Also gone.--andreasegde (talk) 20:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"as Lennon had asked for it.[30][31] In Lennon's last" - repetition is a bit rough here.

So... gone.--andreasegde (talk) 20:06, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Is ref 20 ([1]) a reliable sources? (a few other iffy ones too...)

That has also gone, but I think that ancestry.com is not so bad as a reference, especially as it got the information correct about the gravestone and the family, which another page qualifies. What other "iffy" ones are there?--andreasegde (talk) 20:13, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Small comment: That picture of John Lennon does not add significantly to the article per WP:NFCC #8. I don't see how a pic of Lennon around the time of Smith's death justifies fair-use. Review WP:DASH--I see 1899-1918, among other mistakes.Mendips or Mendips? Be consistent. indopug (talk) 05:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I thought a photo of Lennon in short trousers around the time of Smith's death (Lennon was 14 years old) was interesting for the article. It's gone.--andreasegde (talk) 09:32, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There's not one full-name & linked John Lennon in the prose of the article! Also, plenty of ambiguous Smiths and Lennons (like that section name) float about. After the lead, try to mention each person by full name the first time we encounter them.

Yes there is; read the Lead: "George Toogood Smith (1903—5 June 1955) was the maternal uncle, through marriage, of John Lennon".
Smith is George (Smith) and Lennon is (John) Lennon throughout the article.
Any other Smith is mentioned with their first name.
The title is "George Smith (John Lennon)".

--andreasegde (talk) 20:33, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(ec) "by prose of the article", I meant after the lead. That section header is especially confusing since it comes after a discussion on Julia Lennon. Mentioning "George" in the first occurrence of his name in Early years would be nice too, because of potential ambiguity. "The youngest sister of the Stanley family, Julia Lennon, got married to Alfred Lennon six months before, on 3 December 1938." is very abrupt in relation to what is being talked about before it. Further, it might be better to introduce her as Julia Stanley, since we talk of her marriage. Reminder: the DASH issues are still lurking about. indopug (talk) 20:52, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are there two reviewers on this? Please explain. --andreasegde (talk) 21:12, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why? Is there a problem? indopug (talk) 21:26, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know to whom I am talking, that's all. Tildes would be nice, because having two reviewers is a bit confusing...--andreasegde (talk) 21:59, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I also thought "There's not one full-name & linked John Lennon in the prose of the article!" was not dihydrogen monoxide's style, and it threw me, because it wasn't true. (Anything linked in the Lead should not be further linked in the article). :)--andreasegde (talk) 22:06, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, i forgot to sign that, sorry :) I don't think its a hard-and-fast rule; just preference I guess. indopug (talk) 22:13, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Without wishing to make you feel bad in any way at all, I think it is a "hard-and-fast rule". I have had so many problems with this that I have to check every fifteen seconds (I open two pages at once). I wish my computer/Wikipedia could remember who I am, but it's only a Pentium 4. :))--andreasegde (talk) 22:18, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think everything is sorted here and so am passing. Sorry about the tech issues, this process is still being fine tuned. And glad to know I have a style! :) dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 10:08, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you have a style.--andreasegde (talk) 22:25, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please leave a note on my talk page when you're done with these comments. Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 11:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Why is this page being reviewed on "/GA1"? It seems a bit strange.--andreasegde (talk) 22:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

See the recent discussion at WT:GAN. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 08:55, 27 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Passed. dihydrogen monoxide (H₂O) 10:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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