Talk:Dungan Revolt (1862–1877)
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1781 Jahriyya revolt
[edit]Fighting between the Jahriyya and Khafiyya Sufi orders led to a revolt by the Jahriyya, which was heavily dominated by Salars.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ciShtCrJijIC&pg=PA20#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=ciShtCrJijIC&pg=PA21#v=onepage&q&f=false
Page 293, 298, 299
http://www.jstor.org/stable/189017?seq=9
http://www.jstor.org/stable/189017?seq=14
http://www.jstor.org/stable/189017?seq=15
- Lipman, Jonathan N. (Jul., 1984). "Ethnicity and Politics in Republican China: The Ma Family Warlords of Gansu". Sage Publications, Inc. JSTOR 189017.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help); Missing or empty|url=(help)
Rajmaan (talk) 02:44, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
Name of Article
[edit]I redirected the page Muslim Rebellion and the page Hui Minorities' War to this article because the term Dungan revolt seems more accurate since the term Muslim rebellion is too general. Also see the talk page in the Muslim Rebellion page.Talk:Muslim Rebellion#Name of the article Editingman 03:21, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- If you know any Chinese, you could see that "Dungan" actually means Eastern Gansu, which was a mojor place of the conflicts, but not all. The revolt is usually called "Shaan-Gan Hui Revolt" in Chinese books, which means the Hui revolt outbursted in the provinces of Shaanxi and Gansu. Or "Tongzhi Hui Revolt", which means the Hui revolt outbursted in the Tongzhi era of Qing Dynasty. DerekJoe 17:25, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Incomplete account
[edit]In the current version of the article, there is no mention of the end of the rebellion. How did the Qing reaffirm their power? Stammer 19:28, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
Biased Article
[edit]I can only see the description of genocides against muslims (xi Hui), but before that there were also genocides committed by muslims against Han people, Zuo Zongtang and Qing troops did it mostly for revenge. After te revolt, both Han and Hui people in Shaanxi and Gansu lost similar amount of population. Derekjoe (talk) 09:16, 28 August 2008 (UTC)Derekjoe
- the jungars don't even exist any longer, you people wiped them out, and you're still complaining? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.146.21.220 (talk) 09:00, 16 December 2009 (UTC)
- "you people" wipe them out? Who did this? Under the influence of Confucian doctrines, the Han Chinese dynasties had never committed any such atrocity, the Jungars were eliminated by Qing troops following the order of the Manchu emperor. The Qing troops had slaughtered far more Han Chinese before and after that. And also, all people killed during Jungar's former invasions could also be a huge number, including Han, Uighur, Tibetan, Khalkha Mongolians, etc. I'm not wining here, I just want neutrality. After all, most statistics showed more Han people were killed than Muslims during this revolt. Every life is precious, Han people's life should not be regarded less precious just because their population is bigger. DerekJoe 17:13, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
I second the comment I am responding to, because the second comment is inflammatory and accusatory, assuming the speaker to be 1. Chinese, 2. a Qing apologist, and of approving of genocide, when such was not explicitly stated.AT234355 (talk) 05:38, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Population loss between 1862-1879
[edit]http://yugong.fudan.edu.cn/Article/Info_View.asp?ArticleID=73 on this web page, research papers on the subjects of Manchu-Muslim-Hui-Chinese historical facts were published. Well, editors need to be able to read Chinese(often classical Chinese, which is a little bit harder than common Chinese). The author's conclusion is:有以下几个特点：(AD 1862-1879)(陕西 Shanxi province)
其一、人口损失数量惊人。短短的17年内，全省人口从1394万口锐减至772余万口，人口损失总数高达622万，大约占战前人口总数的44.6%。
其二、战争期间损失的人口数量远高于灾荒期间损失的人口数量。天灾令人恐怖，人祸更为可怕，17年中，因战争原因造成的人口损失约有520.8万， 在全部损失人口中所占的比例高达83.7%，而灾荒期间损失的人口不过101.2余万，占全部损失人口的比例仅有16.3%。
The loss of Hui people
[edit]同治年间，陕西全省战乱不断，生灵惨遭涂炭 ，人民流离失所，社会经济遭受了极大的破坏。短短的7年内，全省人口损失总数高达数百万，[62]其 中仅回民人口损失就有155万口之多。战争中汉人的损失数量远远高于回民，但就其相对数字来讲，回民人口的损失比例又远远高于汉人，高达91%，几乎到了 亡族灭种的程度。不少战前回民聚居的州县，战后回民踪迹全无。战争不但使历经二百多年逐步积累起来的回民人口丧失殆尽，而且还摧毁了陕西回族继续发展的基 础，改变了全省人口的民族结构，直到今天陕西回族人口再也没有恢复到清初的规模。1990年全国第4次人口普查时，陕西回民人口总共只有13.2万，仅占 全省人口总数的0.4%，全国排名第15位[63]
Need to be accurate not misleading
[edit]The genocide is between both sides, there is no reason to just list how many muslims are lost but not Han people. I just added the numbers calculated based on the Chinese you provided. And the total number is 1.55 million muslim people and about 4 million Han people. There is no reason for hiding the numbers just because "higher percentage", this is wikipedia we simply need the truth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.165.107.138 (talk) 05:44, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
- the threshhold for inclusion on wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Calculating numbers on your own is WP:OR.Дунгане (talk) 18:46, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Copyright problem removed
[edit]Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Quigley (talk) 20:39, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
Ottoman support for yaqub beg
[edit]I remember reading in this article several months ago a section on ottoman support for yaqub beg and how captured turkish officers were tortured by the chinese, why was this deleted? I will restore it if i can find it in the history.Shining stark (talk) 19:36, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I take that back, the information is still in the article. The section on yaqub beg's relations with russia needs to be expanded more.Shining stark (talk) 19:47, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
Case study of the revolt
[edit]Rajmaan (talk) 23:17, 14 November 2012 (UTC)
http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA213#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA214#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA215#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=JbGaMUZ6j5IC&pg=PA216#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=VaOaAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA421#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 04:51, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
source on militaries during the conflict
[edit]http://books.google.com/books?id=4EqRBIz9GtgC&pg=PA77#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=4EqRBIz9GtgC&pg=PA88#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 03:40, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Wars
[edit]Yaqub Beg's Kashgaria vs Tuo Ming's Dungans in the Battle of Ürümqi (1870)
http://books.google.com/books?id=Md801mHEeOkC&pg=PA73#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=082osLxyBDgC&pg=PA803#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=6vXcGyEI-VcC&pg=PA186#v=onepage&q&f=false http://books.google.com/books?id=QLlBAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA186#v=onepage&q&f=false
This source says the name is Tuo Delin instead of Tuo Ming.
http://books.google.com/books?id=FW8SBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA76#v=onepage&q&f=false
Taranchi vs Dungan
http://books.google.com/books?id=6vXcGyEI-VcC&pg=PA187#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=6vXcGyEI-VcC&pg=PA198#v=onepage&q&f=false
Ottoman aid
http://books.google.com/books?id=PvVlS3ljx20C&pg=PA60#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=s04pus5jBNwC&pg=PA39#v=onepage&q&f=false
Yaqub Beg's invasion
http://books.google.com/books?id=5p_rjMLgj_8C&pg=PA188#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=_BUbAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA418#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=cqEYAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA437#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=RZlRAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA418#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=bMZZAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA418#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=GysSAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA830#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=z1gUAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA830#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=7k4KAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA437#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=vrtTWXUgTgYC&pg=PA172#v=onepage&q&f=false
Generals
[edit]
42
50
154
144
125
22
385
Wade giles spelling
193 196 209
240 255 256
285
10 13 19
504
Zuo zongtang
http://books.google.com/books?id=bwYMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA179#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 22:46, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
Many warring parties
[edit]There were more than three sides during the war in Xinjiang. It was not just Yaqub Beg vs Dungans vs Qing dynasty, there were separate khotanese rebels who fought all three of them as well.
http://books.google.com/books?id=AtduqAtBzegC&pg=PA60#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 05:20, 1 February 2013 (UTC)
Qing conquest of Xinjiang
[edit]The copyright on this book expired since it was published in the 19th century, so copying and pasting the text is ok.
CHINA BY DEMETRIUS CHARLES BOULGER
WITH A SUPPLEMENTARY CHAPTER OF RECENT EVENTS BY MAYO W. HAZELTINE
http://www.travelbooksonline.com/asia/0022asiapage633_250.html
Page 633
The Chinese Had Now Got Within Striking Distance Of The Capital Of The State.
They had only to provide the means of making the blow as fatal and decisive as possible.
In December they seized Maralbashi, an important position on the Kashgar Darya, commanding the principal roads to both Yarkand and Kashgar. Yarkand was the chief object of attack. It surrendered without a blow on December 21. A second Chinese army had been sent from Maralbashi to Kashgar, which was defended by a force of several thousand men. It had been besieged nine days, when Liu Kintang arrived with his troops from Yarkand. A battle ensued, in which the Mohammedans were vanquished, and the city with the citadel outside captured. Several rebel leaders and some eleven hundred men were said to have been executed; but Kuli Beg escaped into Russian territory. The city of Kashgar was taken on December 26, and one week later the town of Khoten, famous from a remote period for its jade ornaments, passed into the hands of the race who best appreciated their beauty and value. The Chinese thus brought to a triumphant conclusion the campaigns undertaken for the reassertion of their authority over the Mohammedan populations which had revolted. They had conquered in this war by the superiority of their weapons and their organization, and not by an overwhelming display of numbers. Although large bodies of troops were stationed at many places, it does not seem that the army which seized the cities of Yarkand and Kashgar numbered more than twenty thousand men. Having vanquished their enemy in the field, the Celestials devoted all their attention to the reorganization of what was called the New Dominion, the capital of which after much deliberation was fixed at Urumtsi.
I must say that we need an entirely new article just on the conflict which occured in Xinjiang with Yaqub Beg.
http://www.chinaheritagequarterly.org/editorial.php?issue=003
15:32, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Manchu General Jinshun in Zuo Zongtang's army 伊犁将军金顺 阿拉腾奥其尔
[edit]伊犁将军金顺
阿拉腾奥其尔
金顺(？～1886年)
http://www.historychina.net/qsyj/ztyj/ztyjzz/2007-11-19/24499.shtml
Rajmaan (talk) 21:50, 30 May 2013 (UTC)
Qing reconquest of Xinjiang
[edit]http://zh.wiki.x.io/wiki/清军收复新疆之战
Zuo Zongtang said that the Qing should reconquer Xinjiang since it was part of China in the Han dynasty
"汉代已隶中华，因我旧土"
http://hszz.voc.com.cn/view.php?tid=251&cid=7
http://www.tianzhilou.com/kxl/jdms/2013-12/10/content_1614094.htm
http://cul.qq.com/a/20140420/007795.htm
http://www.ilong.cn/show-137-9913-1.html
http://military.china.com/history4/62/20131010/18081309_7.html
http://www.360doc.com/content/09/0902/10/159777_5496491.shtml
http://news.xinhuanet.com/2013-08/29/c_125270752.htm
http://www.lzbs.com.cn/whsh/rwls/2013-12/30/content_3532714.htm
http://www.qinghistory.cn/qsyj/ztyj/bjmz/2007-07-25/25223.shtml
“ 漢代已隸中華,固我舊土”
http://big5.xjass.com/ls/content/2011-03/15/content_190016.htm
Page 165
Page 9
http://chinaperspectives.revues.org/4013?file=1
(M) In Zuo's mind, moreover , the Qing must strengthen state capacity and oppose foreign infringement, because China had maintained a position in Xinjiang since the Han period, and he thus believed it to be our ancient soil" (wo jiutu).
Turkic Taranchis in Ili sided with Russia
http://books.google.com/books?id=tI77bC989PoC&pg=PA97#v=onepage&q&f=false
Rajmaan (talk) 19:26, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Chinese version of the articles
[edit]Article on the Dungan revolt in Shaanxi and Gansu
http://zh.wiki.x.io/wiki/同治陕甘回变
Article on the Dungan revolt in Xinjiang
http://zh.wiki.x.io/wiki/同治新疆回亂
http://zh.wiki.x.io/wiki/同治新疆回变
Article on the Qing reconquest of Xinjiang
http://zh.wiki.x.io/wiki/清军收复新疆之战
Ili crisis with Russia
Related to this
Treaty of Saint Petersburg (1881)
Sources on Ili Crisis
http://books.google.com/books?id=778QAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA462#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com/books?id=wSmal6QRlboC&pg=PA624#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://archive.org/details/turkistannotesa02schugoog
Rajmaan (talk) 06:44, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
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Citations of Sir Edmund Backhouse, 2nd Baronet.
[edit]There seem to be multiple citations of "The Atlantic Vol. 112" with this man cited when it appears that he is considered to be a fraud.
http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Sir_Edmund_Backhouse,_2nd_Baronet — Preceding unsigned comment added by AT234355 (talk • contribs) 05:35, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Consistency of capitalisation
[edit]The word "Revolt" is capitalized here, but not at Dungan revolt (1895–1896). We should be consistent one way or the other. Please discuss at Talk:Dungan revolt (1895–1896)#Consistency of capitalisation. Hairy Dude (talk) 14:51, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
The whole text is full of prejudice and hostility towards the Han people
[edit]The Qing massacre of the Hui is elaborated in this article, but the Hui massacre of the Han is silent. Isn't the life of 20000000 Han people not life? The Hui launched an uprising and slaughtered 20 million Han Chinese, and the Qing army only took revenge on the Hui for the Han, what is wrong?
Those Hui, they were keen to kill, and in the end, they were also killed. Indians say it's a "causal cycle." So why only emphasize the massacre of the Hui by the Qing Dynasty?
李双能 (talk) 02:00, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
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