Talk:Donn Cabral/GA1
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GA Review
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Reviewer: Resolute (talk · contribs) 18:00, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
- It is reasonably well written.
- It is factually accurate and verifiable.
- a (references):
b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
- a (references):
- It is broad in its coverage.
- a (major aspects): b (focused):
- a (major aspects):
- It follows the neutral point of view policy.
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- It is stable.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- No edit wars, etc.:
- It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
- a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
- Overall:
- Pass/Fail:
- Pass/Fail:
- General
- No images. Can a free image be found?
- The only pictures I can find of him are here. They are Getty images. I have never been able to get Getty images released.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:03, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- Ahh yeah, Getty will never release an image to a free license. It kinda defeats their business strategy! Resolute 16:01, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- And, of course, an image is not a hard requirement, so if one can't be found, one can't be found. Resolute 16:33, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- The only pictures I can find of him are here. They are Getty images. I have never been able to get Getty images released.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:03, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- References look good. Ref 25 is a blog, but also an interview, so should be okay.
- Spotcheck of references show no issues with close paraphrasing
- Lead
- Infoboxes are not mandatory so feel free to disregard, but I am wondering if {{Infobox person}} would help to add some basic personal details.
- Until he does something significant as a professional runner or in another field, I think {{Infobox NCAA athlete}} is best.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:19, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- I just finished tinkering with this.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 22:05, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
- Until he does something significant as a professional runner or in another field, I think {{Infobox NCAA athlete}} is best.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:19, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- It is noted that Cabral qualified for the Olympics. If he actually participated in them, I would update to reflect this.
- Early life
- The first paragraph lacks context, and reads as trivia. The source indicates the flag waving bit kindled a desire to reach the Olympics, and his run at 12 was used as an example of his competitive nature. I would make mention of these, as it explains the reason for these stories.
- How is it now?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:16, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- Opening each paragraph with "As a freshman/sophomore/junior" is very repetitive. Consider rewording one or two of these.
- Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:32, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- "Cabral excelled in track, cross country, and with the ladies." - Aside from being unencyclopedic, "with the ladies" is also irrelevant to the rest of the paragraph.
- Pretty sure that is some vandalism that I missed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 20:35, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- "As a freshman, Cabral was the second slowest runner out of both the guys and girls soccer teams." - Reference does not fully support this statement. It says he was the second slowest player on his team. It says nothing about the girls' team.
- More vandalism that I missed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:02, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- "...and was considering joining the cross country team in the fall instead of participating in his usual fall sport, soccer." - redundant use of "fall". I'd strike the second usage.
- Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:07, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- College career
- In this case, I think "three-time" and "two-time" is correct, even though the distances are numerals.
- Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:17, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
- "Eventually as a senior..." - strike "eventually".
- "Although a competitive collegiate runner, Cabral has focused his training on the Olympics." - This is something of a non sequitur. It sits in the middle of this paragraph, but does not fit within it. I would suggest moving this statement to his international section. I would be a good transition from college to international.
- Moved.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:25, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- "He was selected as the most outstanding performer at both the indoor and outdoor Heps Most Outstanding Performer of the Meet." - I don't think you meant to use "most outstanding performer" twice here?
- Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:55, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
- "As a senior in 2012, he won his third consecutive Ivy League outdoor 10,000..." - Strike "as a senior" as you've already established at this point he is a senior.
- "He formerly held the school record in the outdoor 5000 meters before classmate Joe Stilin destroyed it at the Mt. SAC Relays." - "destroyed" is unencyclopedic. Also, requires a source.
- I removed this as unsourced OR. I will source and readd properly.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:08, 20 November 2012 (UTC)
- "Running for Princeton University on June 8, 2012, Donald was the 2012 NCAA steeplechase champion..." - We already know he ran for Princeton, no need to restate it. Also, why is Princeton University linked so late in this section rather than where it is mentioned in the first sentence?
- Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:37, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- You mention that Cabral is the first track champion Princeton has had since 1934, then in the very next sentence state the exact same thing. I'd reword this to remove the redundancy.
- I have addressed this.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:46, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- International/Professional career
- You note he qualified for the Olympics, then that he turned pro, then that he signed with Nike, then that he participated in a race of some sort. I presume you mean the Olympics, but the pro stuff in the middle leaves this disjointed. I would put all of the Olympic info together, then all of the pro stuff.
- Personal life
- Section is very thin. If it can't be expanded, I would suggest moving these to sentences to early life. However, I am left with questions that could fill this out a little: What did he study at Princeton? Is he still studying at the University of Colorado? If so, perhaps mention here that he is studying business instead of noting his major in the college athletics section. If he is not at Coloardo, does he have a job, or is he a full-time professional in track?
- [Outside comment] I agree that it's thin, but in a way it's too thick. The parents' names are irrelevant, esp. in a BLP, and they need to go. That he was "coached" in soccer means nothing: I coach my girls in soccer as well. It only means something if a. the coaching is meaningful (if your dad is Johan Cruijff) and b. that soccer goes somewhere--got a soccer scholarship but turned it down to do some other sport, or something like that. The names have to go--the rest can, as suggested, be moved elsewhere if it can be indicated to be meaningful in the first place. Drmies (talk) 18:18, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
- Parents names irrelevant? We always include names of immediate family members if they can be found.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:54, 17 November 2012 (UTC)
- [Outside comment] I agree that it's thin, but in a way it's too thick. The parents' names are irrelevant, esp. in a BLP, and they need to go. That he was "coached" in soccer means nothing: I coach my girls in soccer as well. It only means something if a. the coaching is meaningful (if your dad is Johan Cruijff) and b. that soccer goes somewhere--got a soccer scholarship but turned it down to do some other sport, or something like that. The names have to go--the rest can, as suggested, be moved elsewhere if it can be indicated to be meaningful in the first place. Drmies (talk) 18:18, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
- Overall
- It's very close. Once the few prose issues and perhaps a little fleshing of personal life are complete, this should easily pass. I am placing the nomination on hold pending. Regards, Resolute 18:00, 9 November 2012 (UTC)
- I apologize for not looking at this too closely yet. I am trying to get a new creation (Glenn Robinson III) ready for a November 23 DYK main page date request.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:04, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- No worries. I've never held firm to the 10-day rule. As long as I know you'll deal with the review, and I know you will, I've no issue with keeping it on hold indefinitely. Resolute 16:01, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- Ok, all issues appear to be addressed. I am satisfied this is now a GA. Cheers! Resolute 15:10, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
- No worries. I've never held firm to the 10-day rule. As long as I know you'll deal with the review, and I know you will, I've no issue with keeping it on hold indefinitely. Resolute 16:01, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
- I apologize for not looking at this too closely yet. I am trying to get a new creation (Glenn Robinson III) ready for a November 23 DYK main page date request.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 01:04, 15 November 2012 (UTC)