Talk:Debbane Palace

Debbane Palace has been listed as one of the Art and architecture good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Review: October 15, 2020. (Reviewed version).

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A fact from Debbane Palace appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 7 August 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that after being squatted by hundreds of refugees, the 18th-century Debbane Palace was restored to its former state and turned into a private museum?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/August. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Debbane Palace.

Wikipedia

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by The Squirrel Conspiracy (talk) 20:44, 1 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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Entrance to the Debbane palace from the Saida old souk

... that after being shelled and squatted, the 18th-century Debbane Palace (pictured) was restored to its former state and turned into a private museum? Source:
Diaz, Cécilia (2017-06-13). "Le palais Debbané : fleuron de l'architecture arabo-ottomane sidonienne" [The Debbane palace: A flagship of Arabo-Ottoman Sidonian architecture]. AgendaCulturel (in French). Archived from the original on 2019-12-23. Retrieved 2020-07-15.
Makaroun Bou Assaf, Yasmine (2007). "Les apports de l'archéologie du Bâti au diagnostic : le Palais Debbané à Saida (Liban) entre mémoires et quête d'identité" (PDF). Bâti Edificio Building (in French). RehabiMed. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2020-07-17.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: date and year (link)
- ALT1:... that ...? Source: "You are strongly encouraged to quote the source text supporting each hook" (and [link] the source, or cite it briefly without using citation templates)

Created by Elie plus (talk). Self-nominated at 12:00, 17 July 2020 (UTC).[reply]

@Elie plus: Just read through it, very nice article. Doesn't seem to far from being GA-ready. Article is new enough, long enough and sourced. The hook is cited in the article between three sentences, all supported by cited RS. Image is free. Once QPQ is done, nomination is good to go. Al Ameer (talk) 18:25, 20 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Al Ameer son: I just reviewed The Silent Patient, thank you. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:57, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Elie plus: Great, all good to go then. Al Ameer (talk) 20:25, 24 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Debbane Palace/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 19:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
It is reasonably well written. a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists): It is factually accurate and verifiable. a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism): It is broad in its coverage. a (major aspects): b (focused): It follows the neutral point of view policy. Fair representation without bias: It is stable. No edit wars, etc.: It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate. a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Overall: Pass/Fail:
· · ·

Prose, POV, and coverage

Lead

First and most importantly, the lead is very short. It is only one sentence and should be expanded per WP:LEAD. For an article of this size, I would expect at least two paragraphs.

Lead was expanded with article highlights.~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

Though it is one paragraph, the lead is much better now. epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The title is "Debbane Palace" but the first sentence introduces the topic as "Debbane palace". Please be consistent.4

Fixed throughout the article. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

In the infobox, the coordinates should probably be displayed inline as well, because there's a blank line where the coordinates line is.

my bad, it's because of the "title" parameter. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

History

who had become Sidon's tax farmer around the late 1710s until c. 1735 - This should probably be reworded because it is a time span. Either rewrite this in simple tense, e.g. "who was Sidon's tax farmer from around the late 1710s until c. 1735", or add a few words before "until", e.g. "who had become Sidon's tax farmer around the late 1710s and held that position until c. 1735".

Used your suggestion. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

qasr[disambiguation needed] - this should be fixed.

Linked to wiktionary. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

He commissioned two of the city's most prestigious private residences to showcase his wealth, a qasr that is now known as Qasr Debbane, - I read past this twice before I figured out that this is the subject of the article. I would strongly suggest rearranging it into chronological order.

So true, I revised the history section. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

I would probably combine or condense "Historical background" and "The Hammud ayans" in some way. At this point, there is a lot of context before we get to the history of the palace itself; there are three subsections about the background and family history, and only one subsection about the palace history. But then again, the palace is mentioned in "The Hammud ayans".

Done. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

In various parts of the history section, the palace is also referred to as "Qasr Debbane" and "Dar Ali Agha al-Hammud". Do we know when the names changed, or were these just alternative names? If these were alternative names, I would just standardize them.

I hope it's clear now. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

Is Ali Agha Hammud the same as Ali Agha al-Hammud? Also, does Debbane have an acute tone or not?

The Hammud guy is one and the same, "al-" equivalent to the english "the" and oftentimes Lebanese families omit it. I fixed this to ensure consistency. As for the Debbane / Debbané terminal accent it is used by the French-inclined family to stylize the name of the foundation. Debbane, Debbané and Debbaneh are all variations of the same name. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

OK, I see. Thanks for the explanation. epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Debbané foundation - this is capitalized in previous mentions.

Fixed. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

Architecture

with characteristic architectural features of a house with a central courtyard - what are these features particularly?

Characteristics are described in the following passages (central courtyard, privacy, no street-level openings, water fountain and splitting the areas between private living quarters (haremlik) and the reception rooms (salemlik). ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 12:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

I would suggest splitting the details of the indoor spaces and the courtyard into separate paragraphs, but it's fine if you don't do that.

There isn't a lot of literature ☹. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

Any info on how the haremlik was designed?

Same as above. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

OK, I understand if there isn't a lot of info on this. It's acceptable for GA, but it may be an uphill battle for a higher-quality process like FA. epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Collections and exhibition spaces

The 16 sarcophagi are currently exhibited in the Istanbul Archaeology Museum - As of what year?

I hope it's clear now. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

Otherwise seems OK for now, though a bit short.

Yeah, I hope they issue a more comprehensive catalogue but this is all i got for now; I went there just yesterday for the first time and got some pics that I will include shortly. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:35, 15 October 2020 (UTC) [reply]

Sounds good. epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

The footnotes to "Murat 1996" should be corrected since that person's last name appears to be Çizakça.

Done.~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In ref 17, is Debbané Foundation capitalized or lowercase? (same as the issue I raised above)

Done.~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sources otherwise seem reliable.

Images and copyright

Images are appropriately licensed.
A copyright violation check came up clean. epicgenius (talk) 19:19, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

General comments

On hold There are a few things that need to be fixed. Most importantly, the lead is not yet at GA quality, but there are also some less urgent issues. epicgenius (talk) 17:11, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your review, there can be 100 issues in the article and 99 of them aren't conspicuous to me but all it takes is one review and it just changes your whole work. ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 10:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Epicgenius: did I cover everything? ~ Elias Z. (talkallam) 12:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Elie plus, thanks for the response. I will check in a bit. epicgenius (talk) 14:07, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Looking over it now, I think this is good enough for GA status. I don't see any outstanding problems, and I'm satisfied with the level of effort put into this article since my comments. epicgenius (talk) 15:59, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]