Talk:Composition (visual arts)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jaefle.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:13, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Short-term goals

I think it makes more sense to make each "heuristic" its own primary section, so I'll remove the heuristics section and bump everything else up a level.

I'd like to have a sample image to demonstrate each primary concept.

I'm not familiar enough with the topic to determine whether the four "primary elements" are comprehensive, so I'd like to review the literature. lel

Yes it's perfectly true that you are not familiar with this topic, I have rarely read such unmitigated poorly informed drivel. There is an entire science of pictorial composition derived from renaissance pictorial science in which the elements of the image are related to the music of the spheres and have to conform to mathematical and visual harmonics. You could start with the golden section!!!! an-aesthetic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.229.56.232 (talk) 16:01, 15 October 2015 (UTC)

Long-term goals

All fair and good, but the page seems to focus explicitly on photographic composition. What about composition in other forms of visual art, notably painting? Either make the discussion less obviously focused on photography and applicable to all visual art, or add a separate section for said miscellaneous visual art forms.

Terminology

The terms "subject" and "ground" should be properly introduced (and "ground" should be used). The definition of color is incomplete and somewhat misleading. There are many attributes of a color "hue, color value (lightness), saturation (intensity)." Also, the example for meaning of color should be cited to a specific work. The meaning for White is more about purity and purity in China than death, which is often illustrated with black or black and white. If you want to raise specific examples for color usage, look into history and religious backgrounds for more solid information.HillmanHan (talk) 03:48, 5 October 2017 (UTC)

Some missing concepts

• Negative space
• Balance [including "balance of the steelyard" (cf. Henry Rankin Poore, Pictorial Composition: An Introduction)]
• The subject should not be facing out of the image
• A moving subject should have space in front
• Color
• Geometry
• Line
• Contrast
• Rhythm
• Light
• Eye movement
• Pattern
• Repetition (Perhaps same as pattern; rhythm also comes into play, as does geometry)

Also;

• harmony, or consistency
• centre of interest, or emphasis
• orientation of objects
• cropping
• the golden mean/section
• page layout (graphic design)
• breaking the rules to create tension

elements might be a better term than objects Adytum72a

Mr. Hunter (talk) 04:56, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

You can't discuss composition (design) without talking about objectives. This entire article assumes that all art has a common goal. Every design choice has an effect not just pleasing vs. boring.

Let me pick one item as an example keeping in mind there are dozens of these cases in this article. You said:

the horizon line should not divide the art work in two equal parts but be positioned to emphasize either the sky or ground; showing more sky if painting is of clouds, sun rise/set, and more ground if a landscape

What if this is an interior or a mountainous landscape? The horizon line could still be centered without dividing the image. Also it doesn't say anything about the emotional impact of a high or low horizon. There's a world of difference looking down on something vs. looking up at it. Which is best depends on your objectives. That is what design is; finding solutions to objectives.

There are a number of comments about this article should be about "visual art" and not about photography. It would be better to consider photography a medium. The way the image is made is irrelevant to this topic because all design elements and principals and rules of thumb apply as much to photography (including cinema) as it does to painting. You can easily apply this to as distinct disciplines as fashion, architecture, even dance (though the elements are a little different in dance).

The categories of what is an element of design and what is a principal of design is confusing and not well thought through. Color shows up in both lists. I've read other articles using this same terminology but no one has ever worded it well and it's a mess here too. Couldn't you say that elements are properties of objects or parts of objects such as but not limited to color, texture and so on. These are modified to be similar or contrasting to other objects (or parts). The how and why is best described though examples, examples of many medias and styles and purposes. But for god sake avoid the fancy talk, things like "embodiment" and "manifestation" and "it speaks to..." and "art that celebrates..." and "sensibilities" and "juxtaposed" (I can't go on... I'm making myself gag.)

Curious about my compositions? See them here: My Portfolio

Composition vs. elements of design

I want to make sure that I don't confuse composition with design elements. For example, shapes are a design element; what you do with them is composition.

Or at least, that's how I interpret the distinction. A formal art education would help here. Anyone? -JohnRDaily 23:45, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Here's my take. Design elements are: tone, repitition, shape, line, movement, color etc.

Composition is the placement of design elements to correspond with the artist's intent by utilizing compositional principles such as balance, perspective and proportion.

So, you're correct. In discussions addressing formal aspects of an artwork, compostional principles and design elements are discussed (sometimes interchangably) because they are dependant on each other. --Mrs Scarborough 18:44, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Design is merely one element of composing, which are 5 in total.

 I am not sure where the idea of them being separate came from , however it is an erroneous concept and should not be describe in the creation process of any piece of fine art.
 There are 5, and only 5 elements of composing.. 

Composition is a noun which refers to the final finished work, composing is the verb which refers to the use of, not necessarily all of the 5 elements of composing

An example is,  He is composing his piano concerto. The final composition will debut in march.

New Image

I've added an image to help illustrate the concept of simplification. It's my own, so there shouldn't be any problems. escapologist File:Exquisite-kate.png 13:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Rule of Thirds

This rule is not an application of the Golden ratio. This allegation is largely widespread but wrong.--83.203.23.117 08:47, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Says who? What is it based on, if not an approximation of phi? Was it invented by photographers? Source, please, or it goes back in! mikaul^talk 18:10, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Here is some brain damage for you on the Golden Mean Just thought I'd share. Myraedison (talk) 21:45, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

copyedit?

I'm inclined to suggest a re-write of this article. I was going to copy edit as it seemed a bit untidy at first glance, but on a read-through it's really messy. The opening sentence is practically meaningless; it doesn't really have a lead section, just a list of ad hoc points, most of which are vague and appear to be unsourced and/or poorly researched. The rest of the article appears to be about photography, not visual arts, which is fine for a spinoff but this really needs to be structured better and sourced better before it gets to that point. I'll leave it for discussion for a while. I've tagged it as {{not verified}} for now.
mikaul^talk 09:40, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

I've tried to organise the layout better, included the stuff that's been suggested here, and made some other changes such as reducing the bias to photography. It's still too ad hoc and lacks references, but hopefully this is a starting point. The sections on the use of line were/are too waffly and I couldn't make head nor tail of "The brain often unconsciously reads near continuous lines between different elements and subjects at varying distances" so I just left it in. "Viewpoint" should maybe have it's own "rule" subsection but viewpoint per se isn't a rule, and I think there should be more of a "theory" section, stating the case for any rules. I also tried to distinguish between elements and factors.

Alternatively you could get rid of the "theory" section altogether and expand the factors into an explanation and justification for each. I'm thinking that's desirable anyway. We could do with some better images and the flowers image is more suitable for a photography specific page I think. I couldn't find any suitable copyright free images on wikimedia but will look at some of the other art pages here. Adytum72a 03:32, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

The flower is intended to illustrate depth of field, which (to the best of my knowledge, which admittedly isn't particularly deep here) is largely a photographic concept. Certainly, depth of field could be used in other visual arts, but I suspect that other mechanisms for selective emphasis are more prevalent.

You're welcome to remove my photograph illustrating the rule of thirds if you want to cut down on the number of photographs on the page, but I'd rather see more samples rather than fewer. --JohnRDaily 04:59, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

• I agree there is far too much bias towards photography, but would rather see additional paintings etc added than photos removed; same with the text. Johnbod (talk) 03:49, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Article Improvements

Hello,

I've recently made a few edits to improve the article. There was not any information for a few of the Elements of Design, so I added Color, Texture, Value, Form, and Space. I also changed up some of the information under Color to be more specific.

These were originally drafted in my User:Jaefle/sandbox/articledraft Jaefle (talk) 15:26, 5 April 2018 (UTC)Jaefle

Visual Art

List their similarities and different under the following headings •Subject matter •Arrange and use of •Composition and use of space •Materials 41.13.82.202 (talk) 15:15, 24 May 2022 (UTC)