Talk:Complementary currency

Untitled

Do you think we could/should combine this into the article on "alternative currency", and have a redirect? Perhaps there is a subtle distinction, but this distinction might be too Pedantic to be practical. I think having two separate pages may end up making it (a) harder for readers to find information, and (b) harder to link related pages to relevant material on these two pages. Cazort 19:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Just one comment...if we pick one page to keep as the main one, I think it should be "alternative currency"; a quick google search shows that that term appears to be dominant in the literature--it is used about 3 times more frequently and will probably lead to more visibility. Cazort 19:30, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Why

WHY I LIKE TO SPEAK OF COMPLEMENTARY COMMUNITY CURRENCY (ccc)

Thanks for your comments. But keep in mind: In case there are people who fear that monetary activists are out to undermine the national money system we want to assure them that it is not a matter of either/or, this/that, but both/and.

Complementary means that CCC is in addition to the national currency, not as a replacement of it. Growing up in Newfoundland--I was born in 1930--I actually remember the time when banks printed their own paper money.

I am not sure when the practice was stopped, but my father--who died in 1944--and older brothers all worked for an iron ore mining company (Dominion Iron and Steel) on Bell Island, Newfoundland. http://www.bellisland.net They were paid in paper cash. Some weeks they got Bank Of Nova Scotia paper money; some weeks they got Bank of Montreal paper money. By the way, a forty dollars in bills, plus a few coins with the name Newfoundland stamped on them, was a big weeks' pay in the 1940's. To help pay my way to university http://www.mta.ca I worked for a year, picking rock out of iron ore--cold and dirty work. For a sixty-hour week, I earned thirty-eight dollars and change.

Interestingly, Newfoundland had a 20 cent coin.

By the way, I always agree to disagree, agreeably. 02:47, 6 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lindsay G. King (talk • contribs)

If you can't agree to this, come on back, and we'll argue some more ~ homer simpson, Marvelous marvin (talk) 15:58, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

annuit coeptus - you have to be called by God, and you have to have something other men want. Avarice has laid many to waste, on some fair Sunday morning, a lot of blood has been shed around money. The only thing the rich are laughing at the poor, is how poor a rag they are printing on. And, there is no gold printed on the ribbon. Only a promise to do better in the future.

lol

Marvelous marvin (talk) 15:56, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Naming

The page is currently written as if Complementary community currency is the accepted name. This term gets only 5 google scholar hits: [1] and gets NO google news archive hits: [2]. Complementary currency, however, gets 134 google scholar hits: [3] and 43 google news archive hits: [4]. It's clear to me which term is more mainstream.

Also, I want to emphasize that people often use the term "complementary currency" and "community currency" interchangeably. Community currency is by far the most widely used term: 425 google scholar hits WITHOUT the word "complementary": [5] and 431 google news hits: [6]. I'm going to replace "complementary community currency" with "complemenatry currency" and make a few other pages, but we should seriously start thinking also about the relationship between this and community currency, which currently redirects to local currency. We have too many pages about essentially one topic. Yes, there are some technical nuances but to most people studying the subject from a scholarly or news-reporting subject, it's a unified topic. Cazort (talk) 22:47, 2 March 2009 (UTC)

I favour merging the page (I am matslats). I work in the field. There is a need to explain types of 'alternative' currency mechanisms, both working and theoritical, e.g., LETS, SCRIP, barter systems, open money etc, and some of their variations and wilder forms. And then there are example currencies which are good to list. Another synonym for the page should be 'community currencies', it's all part of the same disparate movement. Then also consider 'local money', which I guess is a large subset of the alternative currencies. matslats —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.214.237.206 (talk) 18:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

"Complementary" is POV, pure and simple. It is a nerf word designed to make these papers and the intentions of those behind them seem benign. The goal of this article is to distinguish these items in order to allow them to be cast them in as favorable light as possible. If I started an article on the same topic called "bogus currency scams" it would be POV too and no less or more accurate. A neutral and accepted term must be used. Merger with "private currency" is warranted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.69.156.48 (talk) 01:55, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

The term complementary currency is intended to emphasize that the currency is to be used as a complement to national currency, not necessarily a complete substitute. alternative currency by contrast, emphasizes the use as an alternative option, which can, in some cases, be intended as a replacement or substitute. To some degree, calling something a "complementary currency" draws attention to the ways in which it is different from national currency in a way that calling it "alternative" does not. For example, the Liberty Dollar seems to be marketed more as an alternative currency than a complementary currency...whereas Ithaca Hours are presented more as a complementary currency. So they are distinct...but very similar, and to some degree, the distinction is in the eye of the person using them, and may vary for the same currency from person to person, or even for the same person from one time to the next. And it is a very subtle difference. Cazort (talk) 23:42, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Additionally, I find the merger with "private currency" unwarranted because private implies that the issuing entity is a private corporation--which is not the case. According to the CCdatabase: [7], private enterprises are a minority; most are either unregistered organizations, or registered NGO's, a few are cooperatives. Also, historically, as Thomas H. Greco's book discusses, governments have also sponsored and run alternative currencies (sometimes not intentionally, as in the example he cites from provinces in argentina...this material is not currently in wikipedia to my knowledge but I would like to eventually add it! I haven't because it would require a lot of research.) Cazort (talk) 19:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

The notion that private currency and complementary should be merged is very misled. In fact, if anything, private currency should be merged into complementary currency. But they should remain separate. Even the Liberty Dollar, for example, as well as many bank bills, are used in complement. I would say that proponents of the Liberty Dollar find that it should be one of many currencies that complement or compete, especially gold and silver and currencies based on them. Ron Paul created the Free Competition of Currencies Act in response to the shutdown of the Liberty Dollar. Frequent Flyer Miles are certainly a private currency, and are intended to be used in complement with national currencies people mostly purchase most tickets in. Like Frequent Flyer Miles, Fureai kippu, is used for a very specific purpose, and it would be absurd to call them alternative. And it is borderline public, and such a currency can also be used by governments, which would make them public. Private currency conveys that it is not public. The Ithaca HOUR is meant to be a community or public currency. The Depression Era currencies were printed by municipal governments. Those were certainly not private. The separation is clear here. Furthermore, yes, alternative connotes a complete replacement. Very few people intend for a local currency to be the only currency they use, or to completely replace national currencies. These articles need to remain separate. So, to summarize:

• Private = a private entity
• Public = a government or community

- this does not yet warrant an article, as it is encapsulated in "fiat", "national", etc.

• Complementary = to be used in tandem
• Alternative = to be used in replacement

Examples:

• Complementary, Public: Municipal Depression-era currencies
• Complementary, Private: Frequent Flyer Miles
• Private, Alternative: Liberty Dollar (to national fiat currencies)

Furthermore, if the word complementary seems self-promoting, if it is used often enough, which it is, it still warrants an article. In any case, it is meaningful in itself.

No proponents of merging have discussed this for nearly a year. If no one discusses this within a week, I am going to remove the merging templates.

NittyG (talk) 03:29, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

As it has been 2 weeks, I am removing the templates. NittyG (talk) 06:05, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Coupons and Gift Certificates?

do coupons deserve a mention on this page? For instance, a slip of paper worth a dollar at any McDonalds, or any other gift certificate. McDonalds GCs, in particular, have the same size and shape as US paper money. I had some recently and actually had no trouble at all using one instead of a George Washington away from a McDonalds. So in case the federal reserve somehow collapses, I trust that Ronald McDonald will rise to the challenge of replacing it. Whoopee. 75.87.135.149 (talk) 05:45, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I think it deserves a mention maybe as illustration. Some of these currencies only have value at the place of issue, but others start to be valuable and used in commerce. Frequent flier miles and gift certificates and Canadian Tire money and bus tokens. It is mentioned in Rethinking Money in detail.Chickpecking (talk) 21:28, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

References

Merge from alternative currency

Neither of the alternative currency article's two references (in the body of text) appear to use that term. One is about barter and another is (reportedly) about local currencies. All the information applies to complementary currencies (and or local currency, community currency, private currency). Unless the term 'alternative currency' can be referenced the article should be merged. Jonpatterns (talk) 12:32, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

A "complementary currency" has as explicity aim to complement the official currency while an "alternative currency" could be aimed at the replacement of the official currency. (!?) This is what is somehow suggested by the authors of the "alternative currency" article : [When used in combination with or when designed to work in combination with national or multinational fiat currencies they can be referred to as complementary currency.] In any case the lists of currencies at the bottom of both pages are identical. There is another problem that make things worst. Its not clear if "complementary" and/or "alternative" currencies can also be issued by national governments or legal tenders. The "comlementary currency" article suggests that could be but normally not : [It is an agreement to use a medium of exchange that is not usually legal tender.] while the "alternative currency" article suggest clear that can : [they are created by an individual, corporation, or organization, they can be created by national, state, or local governments, or they can arise naturally as people begin to use a certain commodity as a currency.] From the above it looks like a "complementary" is a subcategory of an "alternative". If its so i suggest merge the "complementary" to the "alternative". If the "alternative currency" authors can establish a clear distinction of the two then articles could stay as are now otherwise must be merged. (KosMal (talk) 17:37, 12 August 2015 (UTC))

Bad idea, Alternative and Complementary are essentially opposite terms, and Complementary is the best way to describe how currencies can work together. The idea is not that one currency is an "alternative" to another one. Rather the idea is that both currencies can be "complementary" to each other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.189.119.64 (talk) 21:30, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

Based on this discussion, which was mostly more than a year ago, I am planning at some point to "boldly" merge (or maybe that should be "to merge boldly" or "boldly to merge", anyway merge) this article into Complementary currency. The objection from User:108.189.119.64, in addition to being the minority view, doesn't really seem correct to me. "Alternative" isn't the opposite of "complementary"; "complementary" currencies are "alternatives" to the national currency, in the sense that if you use a complementary currency to purchase something, you aren't using the national currency. But most complementary currencies do not seek to replace the national currency and usually are designed to supplement or complement, and to be used along side, the national currency. All the examples of alternative currencies in that article are also complementary currencies. Notwithstanding the theoretical objection that there could be an alternative currency which competed with national currencies and wasn't complementary to them, there aren't actually any examples given of that, and "alternative currency" in practice seems to be a synonym for "complementary currency", with "complementary" seeming to be the more widely used term. So last call for objections before I merge the other article into this. Person54 (talk) 19:53, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

Agreed and  Done Klbrain (talk) 22:14, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Complementary Currency Chart

I rather like this chart that someone created though maybe we should have some guidelines for a currency to "make it in". Should it be above a certain value? the top 20? It could be unweildy if there are 300 included. I also was thinking we could add rows such as "current value in existence" where this is either standardized or in the regions official currency and "velocity of money" though this may not always be available. I filled in some info on the Chiemguaer. Chickpecking (talk) 08:24, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Official national currencies in the list

Why are the official PL, CS, HU etc. listed there?

E.g.

Bulgarian lev	Regional currency	European Union

? I have fixed only the PL entry for the actual complementary one: https://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Bon_Towarowy_PeKaO Zezen (talk) 09:41, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

The EU is not a country...

It seems weird that someone has to point this out, but: the European Union is not yet a sovereign state or a 'country' by any other definition, nor does it currently have any official plans to become one. It's an intergovernmental body, more like NATO, or the Canada–United States Free Trade Agreement. It has members that are sovereign states i.e. 'countries', just like how the United States of America is a sovereign state and Canada is a sovereign state; in fact the United Kingdom, listed in the table as a country, is a member of the European Union (at least for the rest of this month).

So describing the Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Hungarian, Romanian and Swedish currencies as 'regional' currencies in the 'country' of the European Union is like describing Polish Zloty or British Pounds as 'regional currencies'. They're not that, they're national currencies, just like the Canadian Dollar, Japanese Yen etc.

But if you're creating that table then you're already on Wikipedia, so it's ridiculously easy to look that up... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Adam Dent (talk • contribs) 08:12, 12 October 2019 (UTC)

FarmShare

Can the FarmShare currency be listed in the currencies list ? See https://www.academia.edu/16673793/FarmShare_Blockchain_Community-Supported_Agriculture FarmShare: Blockchain Community-Supported Agriculture Genetics4good (talk) 08:27, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

@Genetics4good: I agree. "Be bold" is a wikipedia rule :), cheers, SvenAERTS (talk) 12:52, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Sardex to be added ?

Hello, I dont see Sardex in the table and I am not at ease enough to add it. https://www.ft.com/content/cf875d9a-5be6-11e5-a28b-50226830d644 Can somebody do the job? Reneza (talk) 09:37, 25 January 2022 (UTC)