Talk:Charlotte Mason

Initial stuff

This is an inital page. Please add information carefully and accurately. I will be watching this page. . . .Lfinder 19:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)lfinder

In development

My wife user:lfinder is continuing to develop this page. She is doing research to expand the page without direct plagarism (cut and paste). Please give comments here to help her expand. Naraht 19:59, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks you SimplyCM

I hope SimplyCM reads this. I consider this user's contributions to be more than helpful for me. Thanks! Lfinder 20:00, 8 April 2006 (UTC)lfinder

You're very welcome, Lfinder. Thank you for the nice comment. I'm glad I could help. Simplycm 20:36, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Copying

I've noticed some of the wording is too close to that in the external links. It must be reworded, as copyright violations are illegal. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 22:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Haven't checked exactly how closely worded it is, but if it really is a problem then possibly the user who added them can try asking permission. Wouldn't be too surprised if it is given. Mathmo ^Talk 03:33, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

I removed the sentence about Charlotte Mason's father never recovering from the death of her mother. There was no citation, but that entire section (as well as some others) was copied and pasted from Aimee Natal's webpage without attribution. (DeputyHeadmistress (talk) 19:17, 27 September 2010 (UTC))

link to Ambleside Online

Ambleside online states that you need permission to link to them. Would simply having the URL on Wikipedia without the brackets (so that the user would have to copy the URL into the part of the browser that they type URLs into) be acceptable? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Naraht (talk • contribs) 18:16, 25 January 2007 (UTC).

Why should it be anywhere in the article? The article is about the person not the College, although I think I was right to have added the mention of the College. Ambleside Online has got nothing to do with Charlotte herself. --Bduke 22:23, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

AmblesideOnline has a lot to do with Charlotte Mason herself. It is the only free program I know of seeking to demonstrate what a Charlotte Mason education might look like in homeschools today. It is the only online source I know of for etexts and PDF files of resources such as: Miss Mason's six volume series; all of the articles from the Parents' Review magazines, including articles from volumes that cannot be found even in the Library of Congress. AO has collected and posted lists of books that Miss Mason used as well links to the texts. I have left out any mention of AO for now, but I have replaced links to the source of online texts of the Parents' Review and Charlotte Mason's six volumes on education, and those resources are hosted at AO. I have generally limited my editing to minor corrections in grammar, spelling, and wording of other articles, so I hope that I haven't done anything remiss in this talk page. (DeputyHeadmistress (talk) 19:15, 27 September 2010 (UTC))

Fot future reference:

www.AmblesideOnline.org License Agreement -

The booklists, schedules and articles on this website are freely-distributed and available to the general public subject to applicable copyright laws and the terms of this license. Everyone is permitted to copy and distribute verbatim copies of this licensed document, but altering the licensed materials is not allowed. This license is intended to guarantee your freedom to share and personalize this free curriculum as you need to for your family, and to insure that the materials remain free for all users. You may freely distribute this material, but you must include this license and all copyright notifications. You may not charge a fee for this material. It is free and should remain free. If you distribute copies of this program, you must give the recipients the same rights that you have. You must show them these terms so they know their rights. Also, for each author's protection and ours, we want to make certain that everyone understands that there is no warranty for this free curriculum. If the curriculum is modified by someone else and passed on, we want its recipients to know that what they have is not the original, so that any problems introduced by others will not reflect on the original authors' reputations.

We wish to avoid the danger that redistributors of a free program will individually obtain copyrights, in effect making the program proprietary. To prevent this, we want to make clear that any copyright must be licensed for everyone's free use or not licensed at all.

Anybody can and may use this curriculum, but by choosing to use it, you are agreeing to never, ever copyright it for your own use or to sell it. All copyrights of the authors of this curriculum are expressly retained and no ownership interest in such copyrights is transferred or assigned by reason of this license agreement.

Lame Name (talk) 02:37, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't know where the above text came from but here is the license agreement I'm seeing. Go to the home page. There is a link at the very bottom that says:

Use of Ambleside Online materials implies that you have read and agreed to our License Agreement.

The words "License Agreement" link to a page with this text (emphasis mine):

The booklists, schedules and articles on this website are subject to applicable copyright laws and the terms of this License. The copyright holders provide these materials to the general public free of charge solely through this website. You may use them legally within certain limits. This license is intended to guarantee your freedom to privately share this free curriculum in its pure and original form without charge, to personalize this free curriculum as needed for your own family's private use*, to maintain the integrity of the copyrighted materials, and to insure that the materials remain free for all users.

Altering these licensed copyrighted materials is not allowed. You may, of course, adapt the materials for your own private use with your family. You are permitted to privately distribute verbatim copies of this licensed material, printed directly from this website, at no monetary charge. Any distributed copies of this program must include this License Agreement and all copyright notifications, for the legal protection of all concerned. You may not charge a fee for this material. It is free and should remain free.

You are not authorized to distribute copies of these licensed materials on more than an individual basis, including, but not limited to, the inclusion of these materials within any form of distributed publication or generally accessible internet location, without the express written consent of the Ambleside Online Advisory.

If the curriculum is modified and distributed in violation of this license, we want its recipients to know that what they have is not the original, so as to protect the reputations of the original authors. To that end, we encourage all users to compare any received copies of this curriculum to the materials posted by the Advisory at http://www.amblesideonline.org. We authorize webmasters to link only to our main homepage, http://www.amblesideonline.org, but not to our content pages, which the Advisory improves, rearranges and updates too frequently for foreign sites to keep current and thus maintain in an accurate reflection of copyrighted materials. This is for the benefit and protection of webmasters and users as well as the copyright holders. Webmasters must obtain Advisory permission before linking to our main page.

Anybody can and may use this curriculum by the terms of this license, but by choosing to use it, you are agreeing to never copyright it for your own use or to sell it. All copyrights of the authors of this curriculum are expressly retained and no ownership interest in such copyrights are transferred or assigned by reason of this license agreement. For the protection of each author and the curriculum as a whole, we want to make certain that everyone understands there is no warranty for this free curriculum.

*Private schools and umbrella schools seeking authorization to use or modify these materials will be considered on a case-by-case basis by the Advisory.

Doug (talk) 13:18, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Ahh! Two License Agreements. I was looking at the agreement at the bottom of this page. But as the CM books are separate from the main site - "It is with pleasure that this online version of Charlotte Mason's six-volume book series is provided for public use." and they are public domain, and we are not linking to their curriculum content, and until they are fully available on Wikisource, I do not see a problem using them as a reference. If I could find a Contact Us link I would ask them. Lame Name (talk) 14:17, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

Bibliopeep (talk) 04:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC) I got permission from Leslie (Laurio) Noelani, one of the Advisory members of Ambleside Online [1], to post a link to Ambleside earlier this year. That link was removed. I contacted Leslie again and she said to alert the decision makers here that there is a contact link on AO's site (see bottom of Advisory page). The contact email address is amblesideonline @ gmail.com , for those interested in confirming that AO has indeed granted permission to post links from here to Ms. Mason's Parents' Review articles which AO has typed and posted on their site, as well as Ms. Mason's six-volume series; both the PR articles and six-volume series are in the public domain. Thanks! Bibliopeep (talk) 04:22, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

AmblesideOnline's licensing agreement is changed so permission to link is no longer required. I have added links to AO's online resources where it seemed appropriate. (DeputyHeadmistress (talk) 17:53, 29 September 2010 (UTC))

Bangor?

Where is Bangor, England? There are two Bangors in Wales, one of which is sometimes erroneously described as being in England, even though it is no where near the English border. There are two Bangors in Ireland, one in the Republic and one in Northern Ireland. Is it a section of Liverpool or was Charlotte actually born in Wales or Ireland? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.230.141.75 (talk) 16:38, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

The main 'Bangor' in on the North Wales Coast & is where CM was born —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.144.139.62 (talk) 11:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Charlotte was born in the hamlet of Garth near Bangor on the Northwest tip of Wales, near Caernarfon. Garth has now been incorparated into the city of Bangor. --Paulmichael1084 (talk) 21:07, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

References

General comments on the article

I have boldly done some editing of the article. I felt that every other line needed a Ref template adding to it as they make claims that cannot be verified without a reference. I removed a couple of the most far fetched claims. There are a number of sources listed under References section but they are not linked to the text - it would help the article if they could be.

The lead paragraph teases us with "Her ideas led to one of the primary methods of homeschooling." but it never gets mentioned again - so we never do find out the secret.

I could not follow the logic of "Since Mason lived in England, her students learned French as a second language." but I left it for now.

It is not clear what is meant by "Classical education". Is it this or something else?

Lame Name (talk) 19:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Regarding "Her ideas led to one of the primary methods of homeschooling"... There is no secret. It is known as the "Charlotte Mason Method" and is a popular homeschooling choice.

Perhaps some of the confusion on this page comes from the original work referring to both Charlotte Mason as a person and as a homeschooling method with the same name and based on her ideas. Should the page cover both or be broken out into a separate Charlotte Mason Method page for homeschooling references?

The mention of teaching French is referring to the proximity of England and France, making French a practical choice of a foreign language. That brings clarity to those in America, for example, who wonder if they should teach French in following Charlotte Mason's ways.

Yes, "Classical education" is referring to Classical education movement.

Doug (talk) 13:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I've added the term "Peacock" to the statement, "Her ideas led to one of the primary methods of homeschooling." Although I consider Charlotte Mason my home education mentor, there is no way to document that the CM method is one of the primary methods used by home school families. My experience is that only a small percentage of families use her method.

April61 (talk) 02:02, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

I added links to Miss Mason's books online, and I attempted to clarify the references and citations, although I could not figure out where Debra Bell's book (and a couple others) were cited. I left those as is.

I have added material and sourced both the new and the older material in the Classical Education comparison section. I do not know of a citation for the claim that "Some versions of the Classical education movement put less emphasis on the fine arts, especially visual art," but I have left it for now. I am also not clear on what is meant, or where to source, the claim that CM is 'gentler' and 'more flexible' than Classical Education. I am not sure what that means. I think both of these claims should be sourced or omitted.

I am working my way through the Teaching Methods section, adding citations and clarification as I go along. I could use some help with cleaning up my citations- I am not fully confident that I am following the right format, and it could use the eye of a more experienced Wikipedia editor. I may be over-citing, too, if that's possible. I'm also stupidly unclear as to the difference (if there is one) between 'inline citations' and the footnoting format I've been using.

I remain puzzled about the claim that Miss Mason's students learned French because they lived in England. Her students also learned Latin, German, and Italian. It makes sense to me that American students might do better to learn Spanish than French as a second language, but since I cannot find a citation to support that proximity was Miss Mason's motivation, I am not sure the statement belongs here, however, I have left it for now. (DeputyHeadmistress (talk) 18:06, 29 September 2010 (UTC))

Upon further reflection and reading of the article, it seems to me that the information on her books in the biography sections should be made part of a new section about her writings. (DeputyHeadmistress (talk) 18:14, 29 September 2010 (UTC))

Mason's Writtings

May I suggest that a section should be included compiling as many as possible of Mason's writtings?

Here are some which could be added to the current list:

The Forty Shires: Their History, Scenery, Arts and Legends, London: Hatchards, Picadilly, 1881 http://books.google.com/books?id=PAgHAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Scale How "Meditations": (1898) --This is a series of "Meditations" by Mason presenting a verse by verse commentary on the first 7 chapters of the Gospel according to St. John. They were delivered as Sunday talks by Mason to her disciples at "Scale How", The House of Education in Ambleside, and mailed weekly to subscribers during the year 1898. They were later published in "The Parents' Review".

The Saviour of the World (1908-14): Six volumes. Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner & Co. -This is Mason's rendering of the Gospel story in verse form-

The Holy Infancy - Volume 1: (1908)

His Dominion - Volume 2 (1908)

Kingdom of Heaven - Volume 3 (1909)

The Bread of Life - Volume 4 (1910)

The Great Controversy - Volume 5 (1911)

The Saviour of the World - Volume 6 (1914)

First Grammar Lessons (1928) JM Dent and sons LTD. This was written by Mason during the 1880s but was only published as a separate book by 1928.

Related: In Memoriam (1923) http://www.archive.org/details/inmemoriamcharlo00pareuoft -tributes to Mason upon her death, Published in The Parents'

Review and later published as a book. Dawnorsunset (talk) 19:04, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

neutrality

I see that a tag has been added saying "The neutrality of this article is disputed. Relevant discussion may be found on the talk page." – but I find no relevant discussion and am wondering what part of the article is not neutral. Could anybody indicate just where the problem lies? --Andreas Philopater (talk) 14:13, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

I cannot see where neutrality is disputed either. Unless anyone can point out to the contrary I believe this warning should be removed --Paulmichael1084 (talk) 21:28, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 4 external links on Charlotte Mason. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070202154252/http://www.ucsm.ac.uk:80/about/history.php to http://www.ucsm.ac.uk/about/history.php
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.amblesideonline.org/CM/toc#1.html
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.amblesideonline.org/CM/toc#6.html
• Added {{dead link}} tag to http://www.amblesideonline.org/CM/toc#6.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.dshearer.fsbusiness.co.uk/sctfiles/bp_talks.htm
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080212095028/http://www.charlottemasonstudies.com:80/cmlife.html to http://www.charlottemasonstudies.com/cmlife.html/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071220065100/http://fp.armitt.plus.com:80/charlotte_mason.htm to http://fp.armitt.plus.com/charlotte_mason.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 15:49, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 6 external links on Charlotte Mason. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.franklinclassical.com/
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160604133328/http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/ to http://www.welltrainedmind.com/classical-education/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.classical-homeschooling.org/trivium.html
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100818000351/http://www.welltrainedmind.com/the-classical-side-of-charlotte-mason/ to http://www.welltrainedmind.com/the-classical-side-of-charlotte-mason/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.charlottemasonstudies.com/cmlife.html
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://fp.armitt.plus.com/charlotte_mason.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:14, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Possible Error?

In the following paragraph -- "Mason and her teachers organised the Parents' Union Scouts for boys and girls around the country, both those educated at home and those at schools using the P.N.EU system (date?). When the Girl Guides were established, Mason suggested that the P.U. Scouts amalgamate with national organisations for boys and girls respectively." -- the words "P.N.EU system" are used. Is "P.N.EU system" an error? Should it not read "P.U. system"? --216.15.56.15 (talk) 14:34, 2 December 2023 (UTC)