Talk:Castle Park, Bristol

Castle Park, Bristol has been listed as one of the Geography and places good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
March 8, 2011	Good article nominee	Listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on March 10, 2011.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that the ruins of St Peter's Church, Bristol, in Castle Park are a memorial to the victims of the 1940 Bristol Blitz?

Bristol Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bristol, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Bristol-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BristolWikipedia:WikiProject BristolTemplate:WikiProject BristolBristol articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

UK geography Mid‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article falls within the scope of WikiProject UK geography, a user-group dedicated to building a comprehensive and quality guide to places in the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you wish to participate, share ideas or merely get tips you can join us at the project page where there are resources, to do lists and guidelines on how to write about settlements.UK geographyWikipedia:WikiProject UK geographyTemplate:WikiProject UK geographyUK geography articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Castle Park, Bristol/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Pyrotec (talk) 14:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I will review. Pyrotec (talk) 14:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Initial comments

This is an interesting and generally well-referenced (but see later) article and has the makings of a GA.

The main problem is that there is very little history prior to 24 November 1940, from then onwards there is plenty of history, and those two paragraphs are effectively unreferenced. I'm prepared to accept the maps on flickr as a WP:RS where they are dated (mostly 1937), but in effect there is half a millenium of history that is absent and/or unreferenced.

On that sober note I will review the article in more detail, but will leave the first part of History and the WP:Lead until the end. Pyrotec (talk) 15:41, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

History -
- 24 November 1940 -

This subsection looks OK.

- Replanning -

This subsection looks OK.

- Mary le Port development -

This subsection looks OK.

Sites of Interest -

The main problem with this section is lack of references and/or WP:Reliable sources.
I don't regard a posting on flickr as a reliable source, since anyone can post comments on to it (same as wikipedia).
The castle is a listed building, there are WP:RS images on the Images of England site, for instance this one: [1]. "Images of England" has a poor search facility (unless you register), but I do suggest that you make use of it in this section.

History, unnamed first section -

The main problem with this section is lack of information and lack of references and/or WP:Reliable sources.

...to be continued. Pyrotec (talk) 17:01, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Good points, well made. I will work on the neglected half-millennium! RedSquirrel (talk) 20:08, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Checking back, I also did the WP:GAN on History of Bristol in June 2009 and I made similar comments. Published references might be hard to find, so I'll try and help. There is a chapter in "Secret Underground Bristol", Sally Watson (1991 & 2002) - I have both and I prefer the 1991 version - on the castle moat and the diversion of the River Frome. Pyrotec (talk) 20:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Scope of article

I realise that I have struggled with the fact that the park does not occupy the whole area under discussion - this is the controversy I refer to in the first para. The Mary-le-Port area is not legally part of the park, though some think it should be. Important buildings such as the Dutch House, which very much form a part of the story, thus fall outside the park proper. I see that the park's amenity group is the 'Castle Park and St Mary Le Port Group',[2] and I realise that the phrase 'Castle Park and Mary-le-Port' more accurately covers what this article is about. Do you have a view on how best to handle this? RedSquirrel (talk) 09:58, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I see the problem. I suggest that it can be made clear by minor "tweaks" to the WP:Lead, such as (I've lost the wikilinks here, but I'm not suggesting that they are removed; and you don't have to do it this way):

"Castle Park (sometimes referred to as Castle Green) is a public open space in Bristol, England, managed by Bristol City Council. It is bounded by the Floating Harbour and Castle Street to the south, Lower Castle Street to the east, and Broad Weir, Newgate and Wine Street to the north. Its western boundary is less obviously defined and was the subject of controversy. The western end of the site was heavily damaged by bombing during the Second World War, the remaining parts were subsequently demolished, but not all of them were incorporated into the park. Castle park was completed in 1978,[1] and occupies a site which had contained Bristol's main shopping area.

The ruined tower of St Mary-le-Port church stands to the west of the park and lies outside of the park, it is surrounded by derelict financial office buildings. Adjoining the ruins of St Peter's church in the middle of the park is a sensory herb garden, and seven silver birch trees as a memorial to the beaches of the D-Day landings. To the east is a grassy arena, and the partially-excavated remains of Bristol Castle with a preserved vaulted chamber. There is also a bandstand and a children's play area.

Tree-lined St Peter’s Square, to the north of St Peter's church, has been home to various events including German Xmas markets. In recent summers a tethered balloon has been placed near the bandstand, offering ascents to sightseers.

Recent attempts to develop the area between the park's western edge and High Street have proved controversial; Bristol City Council are keen to replace derelict buildings with a mixed-use development to help reconnect the Old City to Broadmead and raise funds to improve the park; others would rather see the park extended to High Street."

Pyrotec (talk) 10:45, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I've had a bash at rewording the lead - any thoughts? RedSquirrel (talk) 17:02, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Much improved, you can how have a GA. Pyrotec (talk) 22:08, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Overall summary

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

An informative, well-referenced and illustrated article on a part of historical Bristol.

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:
Well referenced.

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
Well referenced.

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
Well illustrated.

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

In the light of improvements carried out during the review, I'm happy to award this article GA-status. Congratulations on producing an imformative article or a part of Bristol's history. Pyrotec (talk) 22:16, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Additional sources

There are a couple of interesting photos of the area on Flikr here and here unfortunately the copyright means they can't be shared, however some of those on this page (which also includes some of the history) might be out of copyright.— Rod ^talk 21:04, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some old and definitely out-of-copyright images here, including the Old Dutch House and Castle Street. There should be no problem at all uploading those to Commons. --Simple Bob^{a.k.a. The Spaminator} (Talk) 22:37, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fantastic! I've be scratting around for something like this for weeks. RedSquirrel (talk) 23:23, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bob, the one of Castle Street (with M&S) looks particularly good; Reece Winstone (bless him) dates it to 1926 (1939-1914 plate 80). Bit green as to what licence to use though... RedSquirrel (talk) 23:38, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I emailed the chap who runs the brizzlebornandbred photostream to ask about copyright of the images he's put up; he said "Photographic images are owned by their respective copyright owners". Hmm. I can't help thinking that some (possibly many) of these must be in the Bristol Record Office, but I'm not sure I have the time or energy to argue if they sat they're not public domain.RedSquirrel (talk) 23:47, 6 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Would Millerd's map of Bristol in 1673 (revised 1684, 1696, c.1710 and c.1729.) be a useful addition? see here & how about Ricart's View of Bristol?— Rod ^talk 12:40, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think Millerd's would be really useful - though it'd be nice to get it into the commons at a higher resolution (I'm guessing Mr Millerd has been dead for over 70 years...) Any ideas? RedSquirrel (talk) 23:34, 8 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Castle Park, Bristol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 18:16, 7 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Castle Park, Bristol. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 17:02, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]