Talk:Burshtin (Hasidic dynasty)

I almost hate to bring this up but....

Can anyone verify that this group exists? I've never heard of this group before wikipedia, and the only hits I can find on google that are relevant are things pulled from wiki. --Bachrach44 14:11, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I cleaned this article up a little earlier today, but I still had concerns that it was little more than a vanity article, particularly in view of the quality of the unlicensed images that I deleted. Now that someone else has echoed these concerns, I'm putting this article up for prod as vanity. CLW 14:32, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

I can verify that this group exists for the last 30 years in Borough Park, Brooklyn. I am a personal follower of this group and you can go see for yourself by visiting the location at 12th Avenue and 56th Street in Brooklyn, NY. I can not understand your argument that there is no match on Goggle. The way I understand, Wikipedia is exactly for this purpose to get new information that was not available in any other source. User: Sunny123 March 30, 2006

Unfortunately, a first person claim from the author of the article is a little hard to verify, and I'm not going to be in the NY area any time soon. Can you at least provide a full address? That should show up in google or at least the phone book. --Bachrach44 17:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

On another note, thanks for entering the copyright info for those images - that ensures they won't get deleted. However I must ask - the man to the left of the rabbi - what is he wearing on his forehead below the streimel? --Bachrach44 17:35, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

On Google the reference is "Eichenstein" and under... http://www.switchboard.com/ you can search for "Cong. Beth Jacob" which will give you the 11th Ave. address which was used while building the new synagouge on 12th Ave. To answer your other question "what is he wearing on his forehead below the streimel?" it was very cold and it is simply a warm ear protecter turned upside down. USER: Sunny123 March 30, 2006

Can you cite a reliable source, please? At a very minimum, that would be an exact URL (not "search for ___") and it would also be good for the source to not be associated with your group. Stifle 13:37, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

AMAZING AND UNBELIEVABLE... how after all my deletions and improvements there are 2 users (CLW and Stifle) that are determined to nitpick and criticize this site. Sunny123 April 6, 2006

NEED HELP: At this point I need help from Wikipedia users that have Admin authority to evaluate my position. I improved this site to the best of my ability and I do not think that it is fair to put Citation after every word in this article. I analyzed other Wikipedia articles and came to the conclusion that if you really want to nitpick, it can be done to almost every Wikipedia article. Sunny123 April 6, 2006

I have Admin authority, although I am partial in the dispute and won't be using it. Feel free to nitpick any article you like. When you provide citations for your claims, you can remove the {{fact}} tags from the article. However, if there are no sources, as it seems, then your material is unverifiable and cannot stay on Wikipedia. Again, please use ~~~~ to sign your contributions. Stifle 12:43, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Tapes from the Burstiner Rebbe - [1]

references to the Burshtiner Rebbe - [2]

As a person that knows and follows the Burshtiner Rebbe for close to 30 years, I would like to make the following point. I resent the reference to Burshtiner Rebbe as a story teller. It happens to be that the Burshtiner Rebbe is multi talented and one of his many talents happens to be that he is an outstanding "story teller", however, because he is so outstanding in so much more important matters I feel that describing him as a "story teller" brings him down to a level where he does not belong. In other words, the Burshtiner Rebbe is much much more than a story teller. I tried to describe him properly in the main page but I was ripped apart by many users with the argument that I can not prove my opinion and therefore it is not acceptable to the Wikipedia standards.Sunny123 14:19, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

As an added note, here is my original "Main Page" which describes the Rebbe properly. Burshtin is a Hasidic dynasty, which is presently located in Boro Park, Brooklyn, NY. The sect originated in Burshtyn, presently located in the Ukraine, but once part of Hungary. Thirty years ago, Grand Rabbi Eichenstein, the Burshtiner Rebbe, shlit"a, was one of the youngest Rebbe’s in Boro Park due to the fact that he lost his father at a very young age. Despite his young age, people in the community quickly realized that he is outstanding in every way. His grandparents are all from great rabbinical dynasties, including Zidichov and Stretin. With his extraordinary talent and wisdom he is able to teach and inspire his followers with all the great teachings and lessons of the past. He is now widely accepted as a very special person in all aspects of spiritual dimensions. His vast knowledge in every subject of Torah life and a true understanding of people and his warm intrapersonal skills are extremely impressive. Sunny123 15:06, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Nobody doubts any of this. But it is not in accordance with Wikipedia policy to call a person an "inspiring Chassidic leader." That is blatantly a Point of View. There is nothing wrong with a point of view per se. But it does not belong on Wikipedia according to the rules.--Meshulam 04:59, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Despite the fact that the Rebbe is an unbeleivable story-teller, I felt it was important to delete it from the description. It just gives a wrong impression to a person that does not know him. As I stated above, he is much much more than a story-teller. Sunny123 13:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Fine and fine. So long as there is no POV.--Meshulam 20:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Picture Gallery

I'm beginning to agree with some of the critics here. Wikipedia is not a picture gallery. This article is very short (and is getting more POV by the week). To have three pictures seems excessive. I will not take action about it until there has been some attempt at discussion. --Meshulam 17:43, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

If this matter is not taken seriously in the talk section, it will be difficult to come to a consensus. In order to keep Wikipedia from becoming a picture gallery, I will deal with the issue personally, unless there is some objection. --Meshulam 17:33, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I too agree, three pictures seems excessive compared to the lenght of the article. How about some more info about the movement. --Shlomke 05:09, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Being a strong follower of the Rebbe for almost 30 years I tried to share my knowledge on this subject. However, I was unsuccessful due to the constant criticism with comments like "this info is not verifiable" "Citation" "opinion not fact" and so on. My argument was that nobody came forth to deny my facts in any way. I was forced to give up, because I was forced by Wikipedia Admins to cut back or be deleted. Needless to say , I chose to cut back and therefore this very important article was not deleted. Now you can understand that the pictures are not excessive. It’s the other way around, the article is too short. Sunny123 16:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

You need to read the wikipedia rules. A fact must be verifiable in order for it to be stated in an article. Ideas like "The Burshtiner Rebbe is a good story-teller" is not verifiable. All that has been verified to my knowledge that has been stated in this article is that the Burshtiner Rebbe exists. That was verified through inference because I took the time to find records of his shul online here. You merely have stated a number of "facts" emphatically. That is the reason this article has been cut down so much. In light of the seriously small number of verifiable facts you have managed to introduce regarding the Burshtiner Rebbe, I find it odd there there are three pictures in the article about him. It seems like, rather than offer verifiable facts, you offer pictures. And, as we have said, this website is not a picture gallery. --Meshulam 18:58, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

At this point I give up. If you want to delete the pictures go right ahead. Sunny123 20:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

done and done. --Meshulam 20:52, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I sent you an e-mail with the answer. Here is the info I sent. The current Burshtiner Rebbe is Grand Rabbi David Eichenstein His Father's name was Rabbi Shlome Yakov Zeide son of Rabbi Eizek ( referred to as Reb Aziklel of Burshtin) son-in-law of Rabbi Nuchem of Burshtin Sunny123 June 11, 2006

This is good info for the article. You should update it. --Meshulam 18:16, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

I gave up on the article. Whenever I tried to say anything in the article I was always shot down with "How do you knw" "Citation" and so on. Sunny123 19:24, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't take it personally. Also, if you "gave up on the article," why did you respond to my post about it in under 2 hours?

Family Tree

I have added the family tree that sunny posted in discussion into the article proper.gevaldik! 15:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)