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Talk:Big East Conference Baseball Coach of the Year

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Big East/American

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Just wanted to talk over what this page would include, in response to Joeykai's recent move, which essentially split the conference's history, moving the old Big East CoY award to a new page for The American Coach of the Year and keeping only the new Big East CoY info here. Since I don't want to put words in his mouth, I'll make only my argument here and leave a message on his talk page about this discussion.

As I see it, this page is about "the award known as the 'Big East Conference Coach of the Year' award," rather than "the award given out by the legal entity that holds the Big East Conference's history." Since the conference break is very easy to note in the lead, I think my point of view makes sense. For one thing, we avoid what I think are worse solutions: (1) what Joeykai's done, which is to list 29 coaches who never received something called the "American Athletic Conference Baseball Coach of the Year" award over on that page; or (2) which would be to have a cumbersome naming distinction in the title (Old Big East CoY vs. New Big East CoY; Big East (1979-2013) CoY vs. Big East (2014-present) CoY; etc.). For another, we follow the precedent set on such pages as Big East Conference Baseball Tournament and Big East Conference Men's Basketball Player of the Year.

Thoughts? Kithira (talk) 21:02, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The new Big East is a new conference and has no connection to the old Big East, I don't see any reason why they should be listed together.
No baseball coaches in the Big East from 1979 through 2013 ever won an award called the American Athletic Conference Baseball Coach of the Year. The AAC COY should be a completely separate article from the Big East COY, and the Big East COY should retain the previous history. That is how the college football and basketball projects are handling it and the baseball should not be any different. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:49, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The New Big East Conference has no previous history. The AAC's previous history is the old Big East Conference.
Actually, the current Big East holds all of the old BE history. Check the history section of the 2013 Big East media guide and compare it to the AAC guide, which shows no history (and in fact goes out of its way to note it is the inaugural AAC baseball season). As far as every sport except football (which of course the new BE doesn't field) this is the case and the templates and articles should reflect this. The AAC is the new conference, not the BE so far as history and records are concerned. This is a big member shift, but no different than the old Southern conference, which used to contain most of the original ACC and SEC teams. Rikster2 (talk) 22:14, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The 2013 Big East Media Guide is the old Big East conference. The New Big East Conference did not exist until July 1, 2013.
Looking for the 2014 guide, but in the meantime you can check out the 2013-14 basketball guides, for which the dynamic is the same. Rikster2 (talk) 22:22, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"The American is the legal all-sports successor to the Big East Conference (1979–2013). The Big East was rebranded and reorganized as the American Athletic Conference on July 1, 2013."

How about signing your posts? Also, "The 2014 American Athletic Conference Baseball Web Guide is now available for viewing HERE. The guide includes team-by-team outlooks, statistics, preseason honors and highlights previewing the upcoming season. The inaugural baseball season begins with all nine teams in action Friday, Feb. 14." Per this. Rikster2 (talk) 22:19, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I will concede the AAC is a new conference but the new Big East has no connection to the old Big East and they should not be lumped together. (also i am not sure how to sign a post)
That's BS, the conference records make no distinction and Wikipedia shouldn't create one. And you sign a post with four "~" Rikster2 (talk) 22:25, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Explain this to me. "The American is the legal all-sports successor to the Big East Conference (1979–2013). The Big East was rebranded and reorganized as the American Athletic Conference on July 1, 2013."Joeykai (talk) 22:49, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

What's the source? I'm guessing it was done to keep their BCS berth for football since no sport actually carries it's history on to the AAC except possible football. More BE members went to the "new" BE than the AAC btw. Rikster2 (talk) 23:29, 11 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As someone who closely followed realignment, and as one of the main contributors to realignment-related articles, I figure it's time I weigh in. (Hat tip to Jrcla2 for the invite.) Actually, BOTH conferences claim the pre-2013 history of the original Big East, at least to some degree. The American says on its website that it "operated as the Big East Conference from 1979 to 2013", and claims "four NCAA men’s basketball titles since 1999" and "nine NCAA women’s basketball championships since 1995." (That count doesn't include UConn's men's and women's basketball titles in 2014, which it notes elsewhere on the same page.) As for the new Big East, its history web page calls itself "a new conference entity", but also reckons current commissioner Val Ackerman as its fifth commissioner, after Dave Gavitt, Mike Tranghese, John Marinatto, and current American commissioner Mike Aresco. With that said, I think the awards for both versions of the Big East should be in one article, with awards for The American being separate. The baseball archive page for the current Big East includes links to relevant pages for every baseball season of the original Big East from 2004 until the split. (One season only has the media guide available, but most seasons also have links to statistics and standings as well; the 2014 media guide is not yet available from this page, but can be retrieved from the main baseball page.) As for the aforementioned media guide for The American, it includes 2013 season results... of the teams that played in the 2014 American baseball season. That included the FBS schools from the old Big East (Cincinnati, UConn, Louisville, Rutgers, South Florida), plus the teams that joined from Conference USA (Houston, Memphis, SMU, UCF) and the Atlantic 10 (Temple)—but none of the teams that formed the new Big East. — Dale Arnett (talk) 17:54, 13 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
This discussion's been up for more than a week, and the consensus seems to be to list the award's winners from 1985-2013 at Big East Conference Coach of the Year. If anyone has new thoughts in the future, I'd be happy to reopen the discussion. Kithira (talk) 11:19, 19 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I say go for it. Literally every single other college baseball, college basketball, and college football editor has been editing the way that Dale Arnett explained. It's also factually incorrect to include the Big East COYs in the AAC article. The navboxes will have to be fixed as well. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:17, 21 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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