Talk:Belarus–Poland border barrier

Belarus High‑importance

	Belarus portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Belarus, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Belarus on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BelarusWikipedia:WikiProject BelarusTemplate:WikiProject BelarusBelarus articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the importance scale.

Poland High‑importance

	Poland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Poland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PolandWikipedia:WikiProject PolandTemplate:WikiProject PolandPoland articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Suggesting that border wall is used to prevent entry of asylum seekers

Since such claims were made unilaterally by @Kpalion and reasonable counter argumentation has been done, we should discuss this issue before we agree on eventual changes in the article. I do not see any activity from Polish side specifically against asylum seekers, no such statements were ever made by any Polish official, border wall does not distinguish asylum seeker from others and whoever cites state media of totalitarian regime such as Aljazeera as reliable source of information cannot be taken seriously. In addition, Poland granted asylum to a record number of 2155 refugees in 2021, mostly Belarusians (1150) and Afghanis (750) according to Polish Office for Foreigners, Polish-Belarusian border crossings have never been closed to asylum seekers, there is no sign or proof for asylum seekers entry prevention. Quickcheat (talk) 14:15, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It's great you started the discussion, but you could have given my some time to respond before reverting. You are rigth that Aljazeera is not necessarily the most reliable of sources, of I now added citations to more better sources, including Human Rights Watch, which shows how Poland refuses access to asylum procedure to some categories of asylum seekers. — Kpalion^(talk) 14:42, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

HRW article you have cited is about state of emergency at the border area and does not accuse in any place and surely does not prove border wall prevents entry of asylum seekers. Also there are basic mistakes lowering its informational value such as "thousands of people ended up trapped in horrific conditions in the border area between Poland and Belarus". This is pure nonsense as there is no such thing as area between countries. Boundary is a plane, not space. Also your sources are mostly about push-backs, and again they do not prove anything only present allegations. Quickcheat (talk) 15:10, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Let's read the first two paragraphs for the article together, shall we? Bolding is mine:

"Poland ended its state of emergency on Friday, reopening a strip of land parallel to its border with Belarus to outsiders. This 'exclusionary zone,' created 10 months ago, blocked aid groups, media, and civil society groups from seeing what happened in this stretch of the border, where migrants and asylum seekers often attempted to cross into the European Union. The state of emergency also made it a crime to help people stranded in the forest.

"While the end of the state of emergency is a positive development, the humanitarian crisis on the border continues. Poland’s authorities should act to protect the rights of these migrants and asylum seekers. Instead, restrictions to entry remain in the area 200 meters from the Belarus border, and the construction of a 187 kilometer-long wall along this border is nearly complete."

— Kpalion^(talk) 17:28, 17 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You have cited exactly what I am talking about. Now again and slowly, ok? In your bolding there is
1) claim that there are asylum seekers trying to enter EU,
2) then we have something about humanitarian crisis (totally not related to the matter of discussion),
3) then about (already lifted) restrictions in the 200m area (not related again) and in the end
4) a mention that border wall is near completion.
Where do we have claim that border wall is used to prevent entry of asylum seekers? We don't. Fact:HRW article does not indicate that border wall is used to prevent entry of asylum seekers. It simply cannot because Fact2:asylum seekers can enter Poland anytime. HRW does not state otherwise. I recomend you to read your sources again, this time carefully. And since you have changed the article without reaching an agreement I have to revert it again. Quickcheat (talk) 22:15, 18 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I just added one more citation, this one from Associated Press [1], which is less equivocal: "As Poland opened its gates to millions of Ukrainians fleeing Russia’s invasion, work was well underway to build the 5.5-meter (18-foot) high wall along 186 kilometers (115 miles) of its northern frontier with Belarus. It still needs electronic surveillance systems to be installed. It’s meant to keep out asylum seekers of a different type: those fleeing conflict and poverty in the Middle East and Africa, who were encouraged to try their luck by Belarus’ authoritarian regime — a close ally of Russia — as part of a feud with the EU." (emphasis is mine) — Kpalion^(talk) 09:22, 19 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

AP did not present any proof for its claim, nor any argumentation, nor any logic behind it. It's just some journalist presented an allegation like many others. This is not enough to present it as a fact on wikipedia but rather as a unilateral claim - and this must be marked. The more so that it has been rightly noticed that Poland has not stopped accepting refugees, on the contrary - it has never accepted even a fraction of what it accepts after putting the barrier into use. — Utryss (talk) 01:20, 9 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]