Talk:Battle of Bakhmut

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Battle of Bakhmut article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6: 30 days

WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS

The article Battle of Bakhmut, along with other pages relating to the Russo-Ukrainian War, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:

Only extended-confirmed editors may make edits related to the topic area, though editors who are not extended-confirmed may post constructive comments and make edit requests related to articles within the topic area on article talk pages. Should disruption occur on article talk pages, administrators may take enforcement actions against disruptive editors and/or apply page protection on article talk pages. However, non-extended-confirmed editors may not make edits to internal project discussions related to the topic area, even on article talk pages. Internal project discussions include, but are not limited to, Articles for deletion nominations, WikiProjects, requests for comment, requested moves, and noticeboard discussions.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

Remedy instructions and exemptions
Enforcement procedures: Violations of any restrictions and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard. Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense. An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the Balkans or Eastern Europe, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Before requesting any edits to this protected article, please familiarise yourself with reliable sourcing requirements.

Before posting an edit request on this talk page, please read the reliable sourcing and original research policies. These policies require that information in Wikipedia articles be supported by citations from reliable independent sources, and disallow your personal views, observations, interpretations, analyses, or anecdotes from being used.

Only content verified by subject experts and other reliable sources may be included, and uncited material may be removed without notice. If your complaint is about an assertion made in the article, check first to see if your proposed change is supported by reliable sources. If it is not, it is highly unlikely that your request will be granted. Checking the archives for previous discussions may provide more information. Requests which do not provide citations from reliable sources, or rely on unreliable sources, may be subject to closure without any other response.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Wagner or Russian troops be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated, especially about whether the battle is over. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting on that topic.

Restarting a debate that has already been settled constitutes disruptive editing, tendentious editing, and "asking the other parent", unless consensus changes.

Military history: European / Russian & Soviet / Post-Cold War

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	European military history task force
	Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
	Post-Cold War task force

Russia Low‑importance

	Russia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Wikipedia. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Ukraine Low‑importance

	Ukraine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

WP:ECR

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Per WP:ECR: Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.

Non-ECP users may not initiate or otherwise participate in discussions at this talk page. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:08, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Ukrainian casualties

Other articles separate Russian and Ukrainian casualties into different sections but in this one its just says "military casualties". However, there are no estimates of Ukrainian casualties in that section. I know they took heavy casualties near the end when they were practically fighting to the last man and stubbornly resisting American calls to withdraw. Yet this is not reflected anywhere in the article and neither are other Ukrainian casualties. There isn't even an estimate in the info box anymore. Hopefully someone can fix this. Maxsmart50 (talk)

Caused by heavy casualties

who were later reinforced by many other units—including special forces and territorial defense units—in order to fill in gaps caused by heavy casualties - who added that misinformation not found in sources? ManyAreasExpert (talk) 21:14, 5 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The phrase "in order to fill in gaps caused by heavy casualties" was added by RopeTricks with this edit, though you might have done the same footwork I did to locate this. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:10, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

False. I did the footwork myself. I merely rephrased an entry made by user LordLoko on 8 December 2022. LordLoko is the user that originally entered the so-called "misinformation". The phrase "until later were reinforced from many other units in other to fill in the gaps caused by the heavy casualties." did not exist on the page until Loko's edit. I "added" nothing, I merely rewrote his pre-existing entry many days later on 15 December 2022. RopeTricks (talk) 11:32, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The phrasing "in order to fill in gaps caused by heavy casualties" can be directly traced to the edit I linked. Unless you can reasonably show that it occurred earlier it is not false that you introduced the phrase. If you are responding to Manyareasexpert and misinformation not found in sources, that is another issue. It is all a matter of indenting and who you are responding to. Cinderella157 (talk) 12:15, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

LordLoko originally added the "fill in the gaps" text. Their initial entry was made on 8 December 2022, writing "until later were reinforced from many other units in other to fill in the gaps caused by the heavy casualties". That's who originally populated the article with the "misinformation". Refer to them for further inquiry, not me. RopeTricks (talk) 14:12, 6 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 September 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

First sentence: Capitalize "battle" in "battle of Bakhmut". Nicp71 (talk) 00:06, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done Per MOS:CAPS - not consistently capped in sources. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:09, 8 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Aftermath

Somehow the Russian victory mentioned in the infobox does not appear under the "Battle" section, it appears under "Aftermath-Result". This infers there was some sort of victory well AFTER the battle was over - it had nothing to do with the battle. A very strange way to represent it. 14.2.205.131 (talk) 06:31, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What to say result= russian victory? Slatersteven (talk) 10:19, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The aftermath section of an article includes how sources have analysed the result (after the event ended). There is no issue. Cinderella157 (talk) 11:11, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is that there is a battle section that does not state which side won. You have to look elsewhere. 14.2.205.131 (talk) 12:04, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The TOC and the infobox tell you where to look. This conforms with P&G. There is no issue. Cinderella157 (talk) 01:35, 17 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ajnad al-Kavkaz should be included on the side of ukraine in this battle

there is much evidence that they fought with ukrainian troops in bakhumt. btw this is not political motivated or anything.

source: https://gur.gov.ua/en/content/chechenski-dobrovoltsi-znyshchuiut-rosiiskykh-okupantiv-u-bakhmuti.html Swagmessiah08 (talk) 21:15, 1 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]