Talk:Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery

Untitled

Updated some info and removed some irrelevant and outdated material.

Is it still correct to tag this article with not containing a worldwide perspective?? Ranjitointernational 22:10, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I would have to say no. Not every country awards the degree precisely, and those that do are completely covered. Time to erase it, I would say. Grahamdubya 19:17, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

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Why are there two bachelor's degrees?

Some people try to explain the two degrees as reflecting the former separation of the medical and surgical professions: but the separate basic training had ended long before the British universities started to give separate basic degrees. As this phenomenon started in Great Britain before it spread to the Empire and Comonwealth, the causes are likely to be found there.

At the begining of the 19th century, there was little statutory control of the medical profession. The move towards state regulation (as already begun in Europe) was countered by Adam Smith and his laissez-faire supporters. Nevertheless, Parliament and a variety of other central bodies began to insist that ship's surgeons and public employees such as prison doctors and Poor Law medical officers had to be qualified in both medicine and surgery. This came to be interpreted as requiring separate qualifications.

At that time, large numbers of men from England and the colonies went to Ireland and Scotland to study medicine. The output of graduates and licentiates was too much for local needs, so many went to practice in England. These comprised both university graduates with MDs and Licentiates of the Royal Colleges of Surgeons in Edinburgh and Dublin, and the Faculty of Physicians and Surgeons of Glasgow, as well as those who went on to qualify elsewhere or did not acquire any diploma at all.

In England, the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge were at a low ebb. Pre-clinical teaching was not functioning until the middle of the century, and their clinical schools did not take off until after some London medical schools were evacuated there during the second world war. Students (who might have been apprenticed to surgeons or apothecaries) at the London teaching hospitals at the start of the 19th century would qualify with the Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons of London and the Licence of the Worshipful Society of Apothecaries: it became customary to take both. Very few would have studied before at Oxford or Cambridge and been eligible to take their examinations for the Bachelor of Medicine degree. However, they were well placed to take up the new public appointments.

The Scottish universities claimed that their MD curricula and examinations encompassed both medicine and surgery, and were able to convince the Army Board, but not all of the London-based organisations agreed to accept a single qualification. There was already a precedent for a surgical degree in the CM (Chirurgiae Magister) introduced by the University of Glasgow in 1816 as a shorter and more focussed alternative to the MD.

The Scottish Universities brought in the MB CM (Bachelor of Medicine, Master of Surgery) degrees at some point in the 19th century and towards the end of that century changed the degrees to MB ChB, at which point MD and ChM became higher qualifications. In Scotland commissioners overseeing the universities there were able to harmonise such changes. I don't know at what stage Oxford and Cambridge added BCh and BChir to their BM and MB, or what the arrangements were in Ireland. In London I think the new university (which used English instead of Latin for its degrees) started off with MB and BS degrees, which at first were available separately. The English provincial medical schools had prepared their students to take the exams of the London corporations. Some of them became "University Colleges" teaching for London university degrees before joining the new local Redbrick universities. At Oxbridge the medical and surgical degrees were sometimes obtained consecutively, rather than simultaneously: this remained possible until recent years.

When registration with the forerunner of the General Medical Council became compulsory for medical practitioners in 1858, all registered qualifications became equal as far as eligibility for public appointments was concerned. At the same time the medical and surgical corporations were encouraged to pair up so as to encompass the whole of medicine in their examinations. In London the Licentiate of the Royal College of Physicians was paired with the Membership of the Royal College of Surgeons. Although two separate qualifications were no longer required, the public were more impressed by a long string of postnominal letters such as "MRCS, LRCP."

Later, when Midwifery became a mandatory part of the final exam, the Irish medical schools introduced a third degree (BAO) in Obstetrics and the Irish corporations brought in an extra Licence in Midwifery (LM) to give with their pair of licentiate diplomas.

This does not explain the change from doctor to bachelor of medicine. Given how medical controversies were handled in the early 19th century, it may be that writings from that time might throw more heat than light on the subject. NRPanikker (talk) 01:32, 7 April 2008

Doctor of medicine (MD) and MBBS are not equivalent!

User:drchriswilliams If you are a POV editor please think like a NPOV editor. Is a bachelor degree and a doctoral degree equivalent? MD is using instead of MBBS in America or "followers of American system" countries.

4 types of degrees in education system. 1.Associate Degree 2.Bachelor Degree:MBBS

3.Master’s Degree 

4.Doctoral Degree:MD So,MD degree is higher level degree than MBBS and using instead of MBBS but not equivalent! Dr.SunBD (talk) 18:48, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

To know more please check :https://en.m.wiki.x.io/wiki/Talk:Bachelor_of_Medicine,_Bachelor_of_Surgery#MBBS%2FMD Dr.SunBD (talk) 18:53, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Dr.SunBD: I reinstated referenced material that you had removed without adequately explaining why. It is difficult to interpret the incoherent musings provided above. This article is about a primary medical qualification, and the lead of this article comments upon equivalent medical degrees with some references attached. The linked Doctor of Medicine article opens with a description that it is a medical degree, but notes that the meaning of this varies between different jurisdictions. Drchriswilliams (talk) 19:04, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Mbbs

I want admission mbbs in Bangladesh 2409:4061:4E1D:4872:E0A1:66D1:61FD:44F5 (talk) 07:23, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

You need to get the registrar of a medical school in Bangladesh to to look here to see your application, but it may not be valid without your name. NRPanikker (talk) 19:45, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Evidence based medicine

The section on US distinctions is incorrect. At the end it states "The MD title is distinctly used in the US for physicians who earned their medical degree in the US who practice evidence-based medicine. They separate themselves from DOs who go through a different type of education and training that focuses on the patient as a whole and an array of treatments inclusive of medicine and surgery as well" DOs practice evidence based medicine, and it is a part of both the education and the licensing exams. I don't want to start the process of editing, but I will include a citation to the licensing exam and one school's curriculum guide to provide evidence for my claim. If someone is willing to take the time to fix the article, I would appreciate it!

Citations: https://www.nbome.org/assessments/comlex-usa/master-blueprint/competency-domains/improvement-in-osteopathic-medical-practice/

https://www.une.edu/com/curriculum-0 76.179.10.80 (talk) 11:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)