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Mirror?

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Several media websites match up to some content from this article, but the dates of those come after when this article was started. However, the article was expanded greatly after the event, and perhaps after all that news coverage. The creator of the article User:Bookku has a history of writing about women's issues in Pakistan and other countries. David notMD (talk) 15:07, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Contested deletion

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This page should not be speedy deleted as an unambiguous copyright infringement, because it looks fixable through quick paraphrasing and better indication of what is quoted material. These edits don't have to happen in main space; the page creator has offered to do so in a sandbox. Alternatively, I can quickly stub-ify the page to avoid copyvio issues, and it can be built back up from there. XOR'easter (talk) 16:33, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I went ahead and trimmed the article back to stub status (and I found a second reference from the Guardian and added it for good measure). I think the article can be built back up from here without trouble, as long as everyone is careful to avoid repeating sentences exactly and to use quotation marks where appropriate. I know it's very much shorter now, but better to be safe than sorry! Cheers, XOR'easter (talk) 16:54, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References from old version

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Here are the references from the long version of the page. They may be useful in building it up again.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9] [10][11][12][13][14][15][16][17][18][19][20][21]

References

  1. ^ Staff, Images (2019-03-07). "The Aurat March challenges misogyny in our homes, workplaces and society, say organisers ahead of Women's Day". Images. Retrieved 2019-03-07.
  2. ^ "Aurat March demands equality, end to violence on International Women's Day". The News International. March 9, 2019.
  3. ^ Reporter, The Newspaper's Staff (2019-03-07). "Aurat March to highlight 'Sisterhood and Solidarity'". DAWN.COM. Retrieved 2019-03-07.
  4. ^ Saeed, Mehek. "Aurat March 2018: Freedom over fear". www.thenews.com.pk. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  5. ^ "Here's all you need to know about Aurat March 2019". NC. 2019-02-28. Retrieved 2019-03-09.
  6. ^ Shah, Zuneera (2018-03-12). "Why the Aurat March is a revolutionary feat for Pakistan". DAWN.COM. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  7. ^ "Statement from Aurat March Lahore, 2018". Samaa TV. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  8. ^ Zahra-Malik, Mehreen (2019-03-15). "Pakistan torn as women's day march sparks wave of 'masculine anxiety'". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2019-03-16.
  9. ^ Staff, Images (2018-03-09). "These posters from the Aurat March say everything you wish you could". Images. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  10. ^ Mohydin, Rimmel. "Womansplaining the Aurat March: Dear men, here's why Pakistan's women are asserting their rights". Scroll.in. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  11. ^ "Photo Gallery Women's Day 2019 (Aurat March)". The Namal. 2019-03-08. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  12. ^ "Some Of The Most Powerful Messages From Aurat March|Pink.Parhlo.com". Parhlo Pink. 2019-03-09. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  13. ^ "How Aurat March Challenged The Deeply Ingrained Toxic Masculinity". Naya Daur. 2019-03-09. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  14. ^ "4 Most Important Things Addressed at Aurat March". HTV. 2019-03-14. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  15. ^ "How Aurat March Challenged The Deeply Ingrained Toxic Masculinity". Naya Daur. 2019-03-09. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  16. ^ Reuters (2019-03-17). "Aurat March organisers receive online death threats". DAWN.COM. Retrieved 2019-03-17. {{cite web}}: |last= has generic name (help)
  17. ^ Mohydin, Rimmel (2019-03-12). "Let me womansplain the Aurat March to you". DAWN.COM. Retrieved 2019-03-17.
  18. ^ "Shaan Shahid slammed for criticising Aurat March posters". www.geo.tv. Retrieved 2019-03-16.
  19. ^ "Aurat March 2019: Her blues are everyone's jazz". The Express Tribune. 2019-03-09. Retrieved 2019-03-09.
  20. ^ "Pakistani women hold 'aurat march' for equality, gender justice". www.aljazeera.com. Retrieved 2019-03-16.
  21. ^ Saeed, Mehek. "Aurat March 2018: Freedom over fear". www.thenews.com.pk. Retrieved 2019-03-17.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by XOR'easter (talkcontribs) 17:03, 17 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Request of Help

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I was looking for some small help. I created an article User:Bookku/Me Too movement (Pakistan) in user namespace. Article is almost ready but before taking to main namespace Looking for help in English language Spell-check, punctuation, grammar check and corrections. Using better alternative words etc. Thanks in advance.

Bookku (talk) 14:13, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Updating link to Me Too movement (Pakistan)

Bookku (talk) 03:15, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Request of Help

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I was looking for some small help. I created an article Valentine's Day in Pakistan. While article subject orientation is related to Romance relationships and festival, but in some parts of the world it touches serious issues like violations of women's rights & Human rights At this stage looking for help in better chronological order within article, and continued copy edit help in times to come.

Thanks in advance.

Bookku (talk) 03:00, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

auratmarch. com?

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@ David notMD Hello, Requesting help.

It seems one new user Xeeali is trying to add "auratmarch. com" claiming to be official website in article introductory sentences itself.

While I would happily welcome any reliable edits to the article.

I do not know the rules. I am bit concerned I don't know how it can be confirmed site is reliable and cyber security safe and not a phishing one.

I would suggest new user Xeeali to let experienced user decide about link to said website as per Wikipedia rules and not to insist too much. Meanwhile I would request Xeeali to other type of edit support like adding references, adding copyright free photographs and even doing wikipedia trainings thanks Bookku (talk) 03:28, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Whether official or not, a hyperlink does not belong in the text of the article. I created External links and moved it there. Editors familiar with the topic can decide if the website is valid. Xeeali is free to edit this and other articles. Editor credibility rests on quality of references, not experience or expertise of editor. David notMD (talk) 08:57, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting support

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@ David notMD Hello,

Requesting to add article Aurat March to your 'watch list'.

While I am steadily working on article to improve further as suggested in notification template. Article has come across 1'st anon vandalism attack (clearly of misogynist nature), which has now been reversed.

Please see if you can add article Aurat March to your 'watch list' at least until 12/15 March so any repetition of intentional vandalism can be duly reversed.

Thanks & warm regards

Bookku (talk) 04:38, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Not a topic I have any knowledge of, so my watching may not be useful. If vandalism persists, a request can be made for semi-protection. See Wikipedia:Rough guide to semi-protection for how to make a request. David notMD (talk) 12:55, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting copy edit support

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I have been actively supporting some of south Asian women issues related article. While working on article Aurat March relating to International Women's Day protests in Pakistan, I realized public debate in Pakistan has come at cross road over 'My body my choice' and it would be difficult to include all facets in the same & English wikipedia deserves separate article for this issue so I have started an article in draft name space Draft:My body my choice (Feminism). I would welcome any copy edit support for article or links to relevant resources on Draft talk:My body my choice (Feminism)

Thanking in anticipation.

Bookku (talk) 13:46, 6 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Listing of Vandalism & Original research edits

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Page is now semi protected due to vandalism. Wikipedia is encyclopedia. One needs to write with proper references without personal opinions.Please take some time to understand wikipedia. Discuss your concerns here on talk page. Wikipedians are helpful they can guide and assist you. Thank you. Bookku (talk) 02:16, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

      • Edits not Understood list***
168.211.21.226 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) Effect of edit not understood reverted It seems to be clear intentional misogynistic hate vandalism against women's movement, Reversed & will inform IP on talk page)

Bookku (talk) 06:57, 7 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

New York Times editorial

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Aurat March written about in editorial in New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/07/opinion/international-womens-day-pakistan.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage Included mention of posters: "Warm up your own food" and "How do I know where your socks are?" David notMD (talk) 03:52, 8 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

David notMD Hi, Thanks for useful source. Post 8 March there is lot of media which needs to be taken note of in coming few days I will be updating the same.
Thanks again for your most valuable support and warm regards
Bookku (talk) 04:54, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

images

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i would like to add images to this article, and the internet is flooded with images of the event, but i don't know what i am allowed to include in terms of copyright, privacy, and fair use?

  • can someone please point me in direction of the relevant Wikipedia policy guidelines?
  • i suspect that even if something is "public" on social media there would still be privacy laws (as well as copyright issues) preventing images of people being used?
  • as far as i can deduce, images of protest signs that contain only common slogans as text are not subject to copyright? as long as there is no logos, drawings, or pictures of the people holding them? but i am not confident of that?
  • are there any good sources of images of newsworthy events which we are able to use here?

(i'm not in Pakistan, just interested in the issue) Irtapil (talk) 15:12, 9 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My understanding is that any image you find via internet is copyright and cannot be used. See Commons:FAQ David notMD (talk) 10:03, 10 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Political demonstration?

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Some one added a label to Aurat March as a political demonstration, on what basis I don't know. Am I missing some thing ?

1) I do agree left of center polity usually supports women's movement.

2) Women's movement may have goal of better political representation & participation in polity.

But when a movement has not taken official political side and officially open for participation from all shades of political backgrounds more over has non - political social goals too; I am not sure Wikipedia labeling such a movement as political demonstration does not amount a subtle bias ending up trivializing goals & objectives of the movement.

I hope some one reviews labeling International women's days demonstrations as political.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 09:52, 13 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

womxn

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Saamikhan01

Hello, Thanks for your recent constructive & good faith edits. As far as word "womxn" is concerned is not a spelling mistake. Now a days many movement participants use it as a sign of inclusive term to respect multiple gender identities. Besides English Wikipedia you can search for meaning & debates surrounding the term "womxn" on google.

As far as inclusion of word in the slogan is as given in the news reports, the reference of which has been included in the article as I remember.

I do suggest & request to restore "womxn" in slogan sentence 'A womxn's right to autonomy on her own body instead your good faith change "'A women's right to autonomy on her own body".

Thanks & warm regards

Bookku (talk) 14:05, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Since 'womxn is a plural term so it can't be used with article. Writing it accordingly is changing the slogan. Rest as you wish, thanks for telling this. :) uSaamo 23:15, 20 April 2020 (UTC)

Requesting opinion on a page move request.

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Hello,

@ Talk:Aurat (disambiguation)#Requested_move_11_May_2020 is taking place about article relating to women of mainly of Asian origin. In Past 2 days only two opinions are received and more opinions will be preferable. Thanks for your opinion and participation in discussion.

Bookku (talk) 12:07, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Requesting wider attention

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I felt article Islamic_literature is in bit of neglect so I added my note on talk page there, requesting to take note of Talk:Islamic_literature#Article_review. If possible requesting copy edit support. Suggestions for suitable reference sources at Talk:Islamic_literature is also welcome.

Posting message here too for neutrality sake


Thanks and greetings

Bookku (talk) 08:37, 21 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word)

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The terms "Aurat", "Arvad", "Avret", and "Awrath" may refer to: Women of Asian religious or cultural descent and identity.

Self nomination for AFD since article copy pasted to Draft:Aurat for incubation because IMHO current article title Aurat (word) is misleading and confusing leading to western systemic bias and stifling the article growth. Please find Detail reason at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aurat (word)

I invite project members to review current and potential sourcing and weigh in on the AfD discussion. Thanks!

Bookku (talk) 03:41, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi,

I came across this promising Draft:Hermeneutics of feminism in Islam (relating to women's rights) and myself supported the same editorially too. IMO since topic potential is vast many Reliable sources on Google scholar seem to be available hence the article needs more editorial hands for some more update and expansion along with appropriate references.

Pl. do join to update and expansion, your help will be most welcome.

Thanks and regards

Bookku (talk) 15:14, 13 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Starting new article en:Draft:Urdu feminist literature. Please add relevant information with references.

Bookku (talk) 02:08, 23 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rfc: Why participation of Muslim background women on Wikipedia as editors is so low?

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Hi.

If you feel interested in, then kindly do share your inputs on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Islam#Why is editorial participation of Muslim women on Wikipedia so low?

Thanks and regards

Bookku (talk) 13:30, 28 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Peer review request

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Requesting peer review at Wikipedia:Peer review/Women in Islam/archive1,

Bookku (talk) 09:55, 3 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Doubtful deletions from the article

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Bookku (talk) 12:34, 30 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal for betterment of these articles

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I believe all the articles relating to Aurat March need some major changes for betterment. I don't see much difference between the Aurat March and Aurat Azadi March and is just confusing for many. They can be easily merged and redirected. Moreover instead of burdening this very article, we should make new articles for every year's march. These articles also need to be precised and made readable and understandable for readers. Much of the content is just copy paste from news articles which is unnecessary. It should be made encyclopedic in tone. Need views from all the editors who has contributed to these articles. Thanks! USaamo (t@lk) 08:33, 1 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings and Thanks for your valuable inputs. Myself, I was thinking for some restructuring of the article but it will be a slow process over coming one year.
1) Probably for the readers and users of Pakistani origin who are following Pakistani media debates, article might sound like repeat, but factually I myself have rephrased entire article with close paraphrasing once to avoid copy right and copy pasting charges. More over it has been copy edited and reviewed at least once by member users of WIR.
2) Even for those readers of Pakistani background who have not gone through all news and opinion pieces, IMHO this article gives many hues perspectives from different angles together in balanced manner. Though since article first time written some period has elapsed and needs bit of restructuring that I will be doing over coming year for sure. No doubt suggestions are welcome.
3) I am frequently scanning for Academic sources, which are always slow to come and many academic sources from non US–European origin do not qualify in Wikipedia as RS easily. Still by now I have included couple of refs from academic books and hopefully more academic sources will be available over a period of time, as they become available we will certainly include them.
4) Though English language sources are easier still I have also attempted to include few Urdu language sources too but with combined mentions of sources and rewriting remembering and separating and mentioning them here will be bit difficult but sincere attempt in that direction has been made
5) Though I do have personal bias towards progressiveness still I always do and I have included conservative opinions in this article too but since article itself is about women's rights movement weight of their opinions is likely to continue to some extents to a bit of discomfort to conservative thought but genuine effort to include conservative effort has been made.
6) In fact I started an article called Aurat to provide perspective about traditional conservative cultural women of South Asia and across but efforts partially failed due to mostly non positive participation or hands off approach of South Asian and Asian editors on one hand and unfriendly rigidity in some Wikipedia policies. Still I a have continuously campaigned for articles like Draft:Aurats (word) and Islamic advice literature but participation of South Asian and Asian editors is very slow to come.
7) In the restructuring of the article while suggestion of year wise article sounds good but we would lack manpower to develop maintain them separately, but over coming one year I am planning to give one or two splits to the article like one for all the years together, then another for slogans and media debate over the years.
8) Split of Aurat March and Aurat Azadi March is a complex issue, there is no official overt political sidings to Aurat Marches but undercurrents of nuanced differentiation of just liberal and left liberals are evident in projections of their manifesto still at times confusing, since at one place I read demands for reduction of taxes from left liberal circle such news can not be incorporated without one more fact checked resource. In fact every city wise women leadership, their underlying political aspirations are different. Merging of two will create more conundrum in reader's mind about contradictions in manifestos already this movement is affected by disinformation campaign and I don't think it is wise Wikipedia to add in that. In fact I could not give time so I had kept two combined but User:سیانف preferred to split it for good. I suppose and hope once academic sources start becoming available clarity between two articles will start improving.

9) May be if more editors join in future they can have city wise articles too in coming couple of years.

So please keep contributing with your valuable opinions and I will try to take note of them over a period of tie in due course, of course others too are welcome to join in.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku (talk) 09:29, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • I added maintenance tag to the article and instead of overly tagging it with specific clean-up tags, I used general cleanup template and mentioned the reasons for which it's needed that the article is long essay-like with excessive quotations from opinionated articles and undue weightage is given to a certain perspective but unbalanced towards other views.
I still think the proposals I gave above last year needed to be done except for mergers. On Wikipedia the information should be encyclopedic in nature and not something like propagating the view. I'm personally not against the movement as some editors may imply from it but I just want the article and information here to be better for readers. And I think there's a need for a separate section needed for criticism something like Criticism of Aurat March and all the opposing views to be gathered there. USaamo (t@lk) 14:07, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]


@USaamo: Thanks for sharing your concerns. As earlier discussed I was about to give couple of splits to the article for restructuring purpose but then due to my failed split effort @ the article Black Sea I realized that article size has to go beyond minimum size and that requirement is large enough so it's not easy to give year wise splits. So I am planning to restructure in different way by finding some similar topic good article.

Secondly you must have seen I have already added a section on academic studies and an in use template is placed there. There is one paper from English department of one Pakistan university projecting bit conservative views (critical of Aurat March) then there is one more paper from Islamic Feminism side which supports certain aspect of Aurat March and criticizes certain aspects that too I am going to cover. Then there are quite a few academic studies becoming available those also I will cover.

In reality what happens, inclusion of all the orthodox and conservative things we come across on social media even for Pakistani media or academic studies remains difficult. Pakistani establishment itself wants to play down most orthodox and conservative Mullah voices at least in English language media which remains open to international scrutiny. Even editorial boards and any literate person specially learned and interacted with international language who understands human rights will naturally find difficult to give extra space to conservative voices. So availability of conservative sources in English reliable sources remain low. Still I am quite open to inclusion of conservative and orthodox views you provide more refs we will happily include those.

I am a skeptic I do happily include criticism to every point of view on the earth. Quite a few times I tried to include conservative criticism in articles like Marvi Sarmad other users found that too regressive to include in Wikipedia and reverted thinking I am a conservative fellow. So saying include criticism is very simple inclusion of regressive thoughts as criticism exposes flaws in regressive thought at the time of inclusion even conservative orthodox start feeling uncomfortable. Still if you have any sources you share we will include.

Last but not least I found following consensus reached @ Talk:Feminism to be interesting one. May be we also can work on some thing similar in times to come.

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 17:28, 6 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

International Women's Day in Pakistan

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Greetings @USaamo:,

For example I came across an article in Urdu–point Intl Womens Day Celebrated In Punjab Capital covering mainly Women's Days's celebrations in University and State Government and a Haya March. You might get a feeling why that is not getting covered in Aurat March, but reporting in urdupoint shows to a good extent those activities are parallel to Aurat March. Where they criticise each other we will take a neutral note of criticism with answer to criticism where available. Where they are very much parallel let them be in separate articles. I suggest separate article for women's Haya/ modesty marches by religious right–wing of Pakistan. and a centrlised article for International Women's Day in Pakistan What do you think?

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 08:32, 9 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

useful refs 2021

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  • A Cartographic Journey of Race, Gender and Power: Global Identity. United Kingdom, Cambridge Scholars Publishing, 2021.

Bookku (talk) 08:23, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

academic criticism

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Available at: https://vc.bridgew.edu/jiws/vol22/iss9/21

2022

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Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 08:16, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]