Talk:Atari 8-bit computers

A solid aluminum block?

From the article:

To meet stringent FCC requirements, the early machines were completely enclosed in a solid cast aluminum block, which made them physically robust but expensive to produce.

Also, extremely difficult to operate, I would guess.

Is this poorly phrased, or just a bit of whimsy on a regular contributor's part?--NapoliRoma (talk) 23:54, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Noting that this has been addressed in several revisions over the years.--NapoliRoma (talk) 17:37, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Atari 800 article

Recently someone created the Atari 800 article which reads like a parallel version of Atari 8-bit family. It covers the same territory about the development, custom hardware, peripherals, software, reception, and with lots of references. It's 40,000 bytes larger than Atari 8-bit family, despite not talking about the later models, and rated a B-class instead of A8BF's C-class. It needs copyediting, which would reduce the size by 20%.

I could see having most of the common information in the Atari 8-bit family article, then short per-model articles, if actually needed, to go into unique elements. As it stands, it feels like "Atari 800" was written by someone who didn't know about the Atari 8-bit family article, and now there are two articles hitting the same topics in depth, but out of sync. Dgpop (talk) 01:47, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't feel there is much merit in having separate per-model articles. For example, the 400 and 800 were conceived and designed together from the very beginning - they share development history, peripherals, most of the functionality, and the differences between them could be described in a few sentences. If we wanted to have separate articles for the 400 and the 800, we would either end with two mostly-identical articles describing their history in detail; or with two very short articles describing the model-specific features, with the rest of the topic covered by a "Main article: Atari 8-bit family" link. Neihter of these two solutions would make sense. Also note that currently most of the content of the "Atari 800" article is not specific to Atari 800, or even to the Atari 400/800 line.

I think it might make sense to have separate articles for "Atari 400/800", "Atari XL" and "Atari XE", provided that there is enough content to fill these articles. I do not feel there is enough content for that right now. --Krótki (talk) 17:56, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

I don't think there's justification either, other than the existing XEGS article . There are per-model articles for the Apple II, Amiga, and other systems, so I'm not fundamentally opposed. As it stands, having both Atari 8-bit family and Atari 800 is a step backward. Dgpop (talk) 19:13, 6 April 2021 (UTC)

@Dgpop and Krótki: Regardless of the quality of the existing Atari 800 article, I'm not convinced that a separate "Atari 400 / 800" article is a good idea even in principle (even less so one specific to the 800 only).

If properly written it's inherently going to overlap hugely with the "parent" article (i.e. Atari 8-bit family). Along with the 400 it's the original model, so its development effectively dominates and has much in common with the series as a whole.

There's no non-contrived way to escape that (at least, not without pointlessly breaking up and damaging the parent article's "common ground" overview). Major overlap is always a sign that things would be better kept together.

Yes, someone *could* write a distinct article- and has- but that doesn't make the case any stronger if it's just covering the same ground as the parent (or ground that *should* be covered by it) in different words.

Irony is that I *have* thought in the past that there might be some justification for separate sub-article... but only for the XL and- possibly- XE lines, not the 400 and 800. There's more specifically to be said about their design that *isn't* common to the series as a whole and *might* be able to be gone into in more detail about outside the shadow of the main series history (dominated by the original 400 and 800).

And I haven't sold myself on the idea even in that case (which is why I've never suggested it before). The problem- even there- is that we still have to either overlap and duplicate content from the parent article or constantly refer back to the parent article for "common ground" content.

Back to the 400 and 800, ironically it's their importance (as the basis of the entire 8-bit line as a whole and influence on later models) that damages the argument for separate articles. They're just going to end up covering mostly the same ground, i.e. huge overlap.

Ubcule (talk) 22:40, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Well, the Apple II series and Apple II articles seem to have avoided the overlap quite nicely. I suppose if the "Atari family" article gets too large, it could be split in a similar way.--Krótki (talk) 17:33, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Regardless of whether a split-by-model idea is a good one in general, the other article as it stands is in its current state an issue in many ways. Recently created, utterly duplicative, created by a user that was banned shortly after due to various issues, and possibly a copyright issue. It's a classic case of creating a duplicate article under another name because the creator didn't properly check to see if there was already an article on the subject. I'm going to be bold and just straight up redirect it. Anything that someone feels can be added to this article can be found in the page history. oknazevad (talk) 16:44, 29 August 2021 (UTC)

I support your bold solution. This prevents a lot of wasted editing. Dgpop (talk) 15:00, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Infobox: CPU

The main infobox of this article says "CPU: MOS Technology 6502B", which is just plain wrong for the XL/XE series, which used 6502C SALLY. Griggorio2 (talk) 23:52, 9 January 2022 (UTC)

Successor?

In the article Atari ST is mentioned as successor. But technically it was designed by another team and had inherited none of the design philosophy of 400/800. Also, the Atari company of 400/800 era and that of ST era - after Tramiel acquisition - was another company in reality.

Technically speaking, I consider the most appropriate candidate for 400/800 successor to be the Amiga platform. Designed by Jay Miner also, using the philosophy of different custom chips for graphics, audio, etc, in a specialized co-processor fashion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.4.245.121 (talk) 17:46, 4 March 2022 (UTC)

Rename to "Atari 8-bit computers"

"Atari 8-bit family" is not a contemporaneous term, as mentioned in the article. That the word computer is omitted makes it sound like it includes 8-bit consoles, like the 2600, 5200, and 7800. "Atari home computers" was used prior to the Atari ST being released. "Atari 8-bit computers" has historical precedent and is the most obvious term.

I suspect "family" came from considering the Atari XEGS as a console, though it's just a 65XE in a different form factor. With 1400+ links to Atari 8-bit family, this is a far-reaching change, but it would be good to get rid of this invented "family" designation.

References:

1. The Neverending Story manual, 1986
2. ANALOG Computing, April 1986
3. Atari Explorer, Summer 1987
4. Antic, December 1988

Dgpop (talk) 21:02, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

This issue was discussed already four years ago, and no one cared enough to oppose, so - I've just went with it. Let's see how it goes with the others.

There are other articles to be renamed, but I'll leave them for now. --Krótki (talk) 07:07, 17 April 2024 (UTC)

Brilliant! I'll keep an eye on this! Dgpop (talk) 17:02, 19 April 2024 (UTC)