Talk:Ariana Grande/GA4

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Nominator: Brachy0008 (talk · contribs)

Reviewer: Ganesha811 (talk · contribs) 23:09, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

I adressed most of the stuff for 2b that is in my control Brachy08 _(Talk) 05:21, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

I’m not sure how to adress the Pasena Playhouse issue Brachy08 _(Talk) 03:09, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and fixed that issue, so no worries there! —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:12, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

thanks! Brachy08 _(Talk) 06:45, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Hi! After a couple of failed GA reviews of this article, I will be taking it on and promise to stick with it and give the article a thorough review. Brachy0008, can you confirm that you are around and able to implement changes based on the GA review? I know it's a high-profile article, so other editors may also comment and respond to GA concerns, but just wanted to ensure that we have a primary nominator. Thank you for your patience. Look for my first pass in the next couple of days. —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:09, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

@Brachy0008, please promptly deal with the copyvio below and confirm that you will be available to address the other comments throughout the GA process. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 20:50, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Adressed one of the copyvios, can’t find one of them Brachy08 _(Talk) 22:33, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

It's in the first paragraph of the section "2018–2019: Sweetener and Thank U, Next" —Ganesha811 (talk) 22:36, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! Brachy08 _(Talk) 00:01, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

M Magazine is a teen magazine, which should have gossip in it. So, I would presume that it is unreliable. Brachy08 _(Talk) 00:03, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

What is the source number for M Magazine? Brachy08 _(Talk) 03:12, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

⌘F on Macs or Ctrl-E or Ctrl-F on Windows, generally, should let you find these within the page/references. —Ganesha811 (talk) 03:23, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

@Brachy0008 before we continue on to the rest of the review, I think it's important to address the issues at 2b, 3b, and 5 below. Let me know when you will have time to work on these. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:35, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

I am slowly working on 2b and 3b. I am not sure if I can handle 5 though but I can try. (I do not have admin powers lol) Brachy08 _(Talk) 01:50, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok! For #5, you don't need admin powers, but I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the issue. If there are any regular points of dispute, you could try organizing RfCs to garner formal consensus on them on the talk page. In general, a page this prominent that is a GA will need a regular level of upkeep to maintain that status. Otherwise, it will probably end up at GAR (good article reassessment) within a year. For example, Barack Obama was a featured article for many years, but eventually was delisted. I don't want to intimidate you away from improving the article - it's very possible to get this article to GA and keep it there, and I believe we can do it - I just want to make sure you are aware that this is a particularly tricky article to do that for given its high profile and popularity. —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:57, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Got it. Also thanks for the tip. It can really help with reviewing GA articles ngl. Especially Rolling Stone. Brachy08 _(Talk) 04:36, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Also yeah, Fanlala is not a reliable source. (per this review from CommonSense Media) (Yeah, it is a review but it is the best we can get). Brachy08 _(Talk) 04:41, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

And according to a discussion from 2009, RapUp is a reliable source. Brachy08 _(Talk) 05:05, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

And yes, the discussion is on honeymoon avenue Wikipedia. Brachy08 _(Talk) 05:06, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for addressing a lot of this! Could you mark, in the table below, any 2b comments that you weren't able to get to? I'm not sure what you meant by "that is in my control" is all. Let me know about 3b as well! —Ganesha811 (talk) 12:22, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

About 3b, I am adressing the examples that you have addressed. Might read the article again to check for some unrelated stuff. Brachy08 _(Talk) 22:43, 25 March 2024 (UTC)

Also, according to a discussion in WP:RSN, Teen.com is not a reliable source. Brachy08 _(Talk) 01:16, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

Ok, thanks for checking. Yes, please go through the whole article with a fine-toothed comb to deal with dead sources, unreliable sources, and instances of overdetail - let me know when you are ready for me to take another look! I can also do some trimming of detail myself, if you would prefer. —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:26, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

@Brachy0008, it's been a few days and the comments below have not yet all been addressed, and the issues described don't seem to have been checked for in the remainder of the article. Do you think you have time to get to them soon? Otherwise, eventually the review will have to be closed. Let me know - thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:52, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

I would need some help with 4a. Regarding the 4b issue, there are no alternative images that are available (for now). Brachy08 _(Talk) 00:47, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

I assume you mean 6a? What kind of help? If the image has an unclear copyright, it should probably be removed. —Ganesha811 (talk) 02:55, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Yeah. It is a typo Brachy08 _(Talk) 04:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

Removed Brachy08 _(Talk) 09:50, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

@Brachy0008, given the number of sourcing issues and amount of trivial detail included, I would say the article is a long way off from meeting Good Article Criteria #2 and #3. I also have ongoing concerns about #5 (stability). The review has been open for 2 weeks and the comments I've made have not been fully addressed in that time. Usually, this would be grounds for a quickfail.

However, I want to give you a chance to address these issues, given our work so far, your obvious good faith, and the previous failed GA reviews. If you can substantially address the sourcing problems and level of detail (as described in 2b and 3b below) throughout the entire article in the next 72 hours, I think we'll be in a good place to continue. Otherwise, I'll have to close the review as unsuccessful. If these seems like too much in too little time, remember that that's ok! This is a volunteer site and not every article has to be a GA to be valuable or useful. Thanks for your improvements thus far. —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:17, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

Checking the WP:RSN discussions about Uproxx, it seems to be reliable, however it is a bit more opinion-based. Any thoughts about the source? Brachy08 _(Talk) 00:58, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

If you can find an even better replacement, great, but if not, I agree Uproxx could reasonably stay in. —Ganesha811 (talk) 01:48, 2 April 2024 (UTC)

• Unfortunately, 72 hours have passed, and significant issues remain with sourcing and level of detail throughout large parts of the article. As I said above, that means I will have to close this review as unsuccessful. However, please don't be too discouraged by this - your changes have made a big difference already and the article is in much-improved shape from where it was two weeks ago. Getting an article this big and this visible to GA is a remarkably difficult task. In the future, the issues below are fully addressed, and you feel confident the article is ready for another review, please feel free to ping me if you renominate. Thank you for your hard work and happy editing! —Ganesha811 (talk) 23:29, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	What are the sources for the claim that Grande is "one of the most prominent vocalists of her generation"? How about the sources for "pop icon"? Per WP:LEADCITE, it's ok if these sources are not in the lead directly, but they should be in a relevant passage in the body of the article somewhere.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Citations with multiple references, like #4 (on Hose-McCann communications), probably don't need so many. Pick the most reliable source or couple of sources that include the relevant information and the rest can be removed. Is M Magazine a reliable source? Entertainment Tonight is probably not reliable enough to be included (#10, Nonna) Some citations are inconsistently formatted - for instance, #s 12 and 13 give the publication as South Florida Sun-Sentinel, unlinked, while #14 gives it as Sun-Sentinel, linked. The first two are in in cite-website format which should be changed to cite-news. Please check for this issue elsewhere as well. The MTV biography (#16) links to a generic page, though the archive works. Please update the link or mark it as a deadlink (there's a line for that in the template). Entertainment Cheat Sheet is not a reliable source. Is Girl2watch.com a reliable source? #22 (her own official website) is probably not independent enough to be used for that kind of information. Please find a different source or remove the info. TVByTheNumbers no longer exists - please mark the link as dead. Is it a reliable source? Used at least twice (#26, #31). The Winx club Nickelodeon source doesn't actually support the sentence, it just states that she was cast, not that she voiced the role for two subsequent years. New source needed. Stephen Thomas Erlewine should be given as the author of the AllMusic bio marrsattacks.com does not appear to be a reliable source and the original link is dead. Please replace with a more suitable source. #41 (Popular Song) - we don't need a direct youtube link if there's a reliable secondary source which addresses the song. The Pasadenaplayhouse citation is a bit of a mess - if possible, please track down the original article on broadwayworld.com and cite that. Fanlala, the original link is dead. Is this a reliable source? Doesn't appear to be on first spec. Is Rap-Up a reliable source? Was Teen.com a reliable source at the time of the article used (2013)? TheSlanted.com - the original link is dead. Is this a reliable source? Entertainmentwise does not appear to be a reliable source Queerty.com doesn't appear to be super-reliable - though it's part of a larger network, I can't find an editorial policy and they blur the lines between influencers and journalists according to Q Digital's site. HiddenRemote link is dead - also, Fansided does not appear to be a reliable source. Please replace #116 is missing a publisher (Huffington Post) ("Incredibly imitates whitney...") Ditto for #117 by D'Addario Is Self (Lanquist) a reliable source? Stopping at 130 for now. There are over 500 citations in the article! Please do a thorough check for some of the broader issues mentioned above (use of cite-news vs cite-website where appropriate, missing author names, links that no longer work, unreliable sources used repeatedly). Not every comment above has been addressed, and there are still many unreliable or potentially unreliable sources cited throughout the remainder of the article, including but not limited to: Eonline.com, The Fader (PR), E! News Australia, TicketNews, Forbes blogspam, Buzzfeed (not Buzzfeed News), iheartradio.com, meaww.com (MEA Worldwide), E!, The Face, Uproxx (marginal), neonlimelight.com (Limelight Spotlight Q&A), Hollywoodlife, Footwear News, US Weekly, cambio.com, Gay Times, Visual Capitalist, celebdirtylaundry.com In addition, there are formatting issues and missing information, such as missing authors, publishers, capitalization (seeing a lot of lowercasing - jezebel, npr, pitchfork, Vh1...) The 104.3 myFM Lana Del Rey interview doesn't appear to contain the information it's being used to support. ^ This takes us up through #292. The article has serious sourcing issues and will require a lot of work to get it to GA standard. All these unreliable sources should be removed, and the information they support should be removed as well, unless a reliable source is found with the same details. Please also go through sources #293-492 and remove other unreliable sources (you can always check at WP:RSP and WP:RSN. More unreliable or poor sources; Rappler (content is an ad, not actual news), Hits Daily Double, Capital FM, Soompi, TigerBeat, RCN Radio, Febre Teen, Create & Cultivate (PR, also misspelled), Ask Anything Chat, Epic Media Labs, Inquisitr, Routenote, Nickutopia (misspelled as Nikutopia), Refinery29 (marginal), TMZ, TheNational.ae (PR), Alist (PR), LaunchMetrics, Product Placement Blog, I-Spot, PR Newswire (PR), The Zoe Report, PR Newswire again, Cohan (Shelley, Forbes contributor), WetPaint, Mirror, CathNewsUSA, Yahoo Celebrity (marginal), Cosmopolitan (marginal), Business Insider (marginal), Is Zonales reliable? The Yahoo YDE source is a copy of a Billboard article - swap in the Billboard original. Missing details on #323 (signs with new management) from Billboard. #360, OfficialArianaGrande, about her charity, is insufficiently independent to be used a source for a flattering claim like that. Need a source that's not her website. Ditto for PIX morning news, not independent enough since it's just her saying it.
	2c. it contains no original research.
	2d. it contains no copyright violations or plagiarism.	"the only artist to have debuted the first single from each of her first four" is a borrowed phrase from here and should be reworked. This is clear copyvio and should be removed immediately. (" is set to acquire the physical assets.... bankruptcy earlier") Above issues addressed. Earwig finds nothing else obvious; hold for manual spot-check.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	In contrast to some of the overdetail below, I find the Manchester bombing a little undercovered and wouldn't mind a couple more sentences on its impact on her personally. As I recall there was a lot of sympathy and it was just an all-around horrific thing for everybody.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	This article definitely has an issue with "going into unnecessary detail." As a famous pop star and celebrity, there is a whole industry, including many reliable sources, dedicated to reporting on just about everything Ariana Grande does in public. However, not all of these details need to be included here. This article is packed with unnecessary details about very minor appearances, ranking listings, or incidents. I will list some examples below, but a thorough pass of the whole article should be made to remove trivial detail. That will help the article become a proper summary of her life and career, rather than appearing to be written for fans of Grande. On October 9, 1998, during the inaugural regular-season hockey game of the Florida Panthers at National Car Rental Center, Grande became the first child to ever ride a Zamboni in the brand-new arena during the first intermission, the result of her parents' $200 winning bid at an auction. Is this relevant in some way? Strikes me as trivial detail. The following month, Billboard magazine ranked Grande at number four on their list of "Music's Hottest Minors 2013", an annual ranking of the most popular musicians under the age of 21. Rolling Stone placed this song at number 40 on its list of The 50 Most Inspirational LGBTQ Songs of All Time premiered at the 2014 Radio Disney Music Awards on April 26, 2014 Billboard listed the single among the greatest Holiday songs of all time, while Official Charts Company ranked it the best biggest female Christmas song of the 21st century Grande made a cameo appearance in the comedy film Zoolander 2 starring Ben Stiller and Owen Wilson Grande won an online voting poll on Entertainment Weekly as the "best host of the season". In May 2016, Grande appeared on The Voice season 10 finale, performing the second single from the album, "Into You", which peaked at number 13 in the United States, and duetted with Christina Aguilera on "Dangerous Woman". "Singer makes guest appearance on singing show" is very run-of-the-mill. In August 2016, Grande performed a tribute to the late Whitney Houston on the season finale of the ABC television series Greatest Hits and headlined the opening night of the second annual Billboard Hot 100 Music Festival, performing a nearly hour-long set of her own songs. Similarly, "singer performs tribute to another singer" and "singer sings at music festival for an hour" are very normal things for a pop star to do and not really worth including. Summarized information about her own tours and *major* other performances is good - this sort of detail is probably too much. Aside from music, Grande filmed a commercial for T-Mobile that premiered in October 2016 The same month, Grande and Stevie Wonder appeared on the season finale of the US competition TV series The Voice, performing their collaboration "Faith" from the soundtrack of the 2016 animated film Sing. "Faith" was nominated for Best Original Song at the 74th Golden Globe Awards. At the end of the year, Grande participated in the Jingle Ball Tour 2016. On March 31, 2017, Calvin Harris released a song titled "Heatstroke" from his album Funk Wav Bounces Vol. 1, which featured Grande, Young Thug, and Pharrell Williams. On April 27, 2017, Norwegian DJ Cashmere Cat released the fifth song "Quit" from his debut album 9 featuring Grande. In general, unless they were particularly impactful, or relevant to her initial rise to fame, guest appearances on other people's songs are probably not important enough to be mentioned here. In August 2017, Grande appeared in an Apple Music Carpool Karaoke episode, singing musical theatre songs with American entertainer Seth MacFarlane. Stopping before the 2018–2019 subsection. Using the above comments as a guide, please go through the remainder of the 'Career' section and remove this kind of trivial detail where you find it. Happy to provide further guidance if requested. Thanks! —Ganesha811 (talk) 12:42, 20 March 2024 (UTC) Things like "debuted seven live performances on Vevo" and "headlined a Fortnite concert" is another good example of the sort of overdetail that simply doesn't need to be included here. This isn't supposed to be an exhaustive reference of everything Grande has done - it's a *summary* of her life and career.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Other comments to come, but this quote is just too egregious as flattery and should be significantly shortened: Composer and playwright Jason Robert Brown wrote in a 2016 Time magazine article, "[N]o matter how much you are underestimated ... you are going to open your mouth and that unbelievable sound is going to come out. That extraordinary, versatile, limitless instrument that allows you to shut down every objection and every obstacle.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	There have been significant expansions in the last week in several sections, and a number of recent discussions on the the talk page about neutrality, changes to the lead, and other issues are not fully resolved. This makes it difficult to expect that if it reaches GA standard during this review, that it will remain there without significant ongoing effort. What are your thoughts on this issue?
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	File:Ariana Grande interview 2016.png - the Commons page is not very clear on why this image is not under copyright / public domain. Could you clarify or improve the Commons description? Issue addressed - provisional pass but will have to recheck at end of review.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	File:Ariana Grande Performs at Amalie Arena.jpg is not very high quality and should probably be removed. Is there an alternative photo that could be used for that period of her career? Issue addressed, pass.
	7. Overall assessment.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.