Talk:Architectural sculpture in the United States

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LostNYC, why don't you consider registering as a user, thereby getting not only your name in blue but also a user page? Just a thought. Carptrash 14:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I AM registered though... I might not log in every time I edit or add to a page, but I am registered.

One photo was deleted for lack of copyrights, I uploaded it twice the first time I missed adding the attribute and saw no way to add it after the fact, so I uploaded a new copy and added it to that, not sure why this was then deleted.

Good that links to other sculptors of note were added, I know Chambellain, in fact I correspond with his grandson who is writing a book. Would be nice to expand that to more architectural related sculptors rather than adding sculptors in general, that way the article will stay focused on the architectural aspects which differs from general sculpture in a number of ways. LostNYC

i was going to ask you if you'd met Bob in regard to his RPC project, but no need to. If you were registered your name wold appear in blue not in red, so just try registering again. it is not unusual to have to try more than once. i am thrilled with your article here on arch sc, as it is called in my place, and will be adding to it. Although I have books about arch sc from many different places I am best with American stuff, In fact I am about to launch into the Wisconsin State Capitol building, so check it out in a bit and . . .. oh, my mechanic just called. Carptrash 20:53, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Bob found me actually because I have a sculpture that was designed by his relative of his- Rene Chambellain, in the 1920's. He forwarded some splendid and candid shows of Rene in his studio, models, and much more, and I helped make connections between some unknown works I knew of that Bob had photos of models of but no other information.

I am looking forward to his book and I am in there as a contribitor in fact. I am glad you find this article useful, I thought about it recently and wasn't sure if I was duplicating something similar, but decided this wasn't the case as these particular sculptures are in a very unique niche- not quite fine art, not quite public art either and the story of their creation and purpose should be told. Between you and I perhaps we can do some serious justice here to these anonymous works that many people are unaware of or don't give much thought to. My specialty is American architectural works, with a focus on New York City as that is what I am most familiar with (though the sculptures can be found in every large city nationwide) You might enjoy a flash video put together by a friend, I'm not sure if I should add a hard link to his file due to bandwidth, but a visit to gammablog DOT com and a search for webster hall there will find it. He zooms right in on all of the sculptures on this 1886 building, amazings works of art and one of which I replicated in clay recently (pictured in the article)

As far as the account, I just tried re-registering and it says the name is already in use, logged out, back in, still red, oh well it is not important I have pages and more all over the net and more than enough to monitor as it is! I also moderate a sculpture forum on artspan.

One thing that frequently happens

is that folks start to show up from all over the world pointing out [and not always nicely] that the article has a very American slant to it and that arch sc is an almost universal thing etc. etc. etc. So ... it is better to make it clear that we're mostly doing American work here and labeling it as such because it is what we know and understand and that folks from other places are more than welcome to add international touches where they will. I will try and do an into about the early history of arch sc just to set a more universal tone. We also have the option of calling the article arch sc of America if we wish, but i don't favor that. Meanwhile let's keep adding to the article and see where it goes. Carptrash 14:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

This is true that it has an American slant, but the sculptures are found everywhere in various forms in Europe, Africa, Canada etc and of course going back to ancient Greece. But most of this stuff was likely to be carved stone which was another whole industry. The UK I believe was already using terra cotta for this before it was begun here, especially decorative chimney pots, the resistance by the stone carvers which became violent at times slowed down the early use here- they were trying to convince architects and builders that the terra cotta wouldn't last!

Some research into when the UK people were using terra cotta would be interesting, but I only know of the US aspects and the article is really about the American history and use. There could always be a stub or two for expounding on other aspects of this as it relates to other countries and/or materials no? I largely included terra cotta as this is one of the most commonly used wide-spread materials across the US and it's use soon generated the production of 100+ firms to produce it, only two of which remain in business today, one I mentioned, the other I will, one has a coffee table history book available which has a lot of material in it. Article is looking good with the content menu etc, feel free to adjust the coding I won't feel insulted!, WIki html differs a lot from what I'm used to and does unpredictable to me results that don't make sense, but eventually I'll get used to it. LostNYC 09:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

But this is not just an article on terra cotta arch sc? Or is that how you were thinking of it? To my way of thinking, as long as the article is called arch sc then it should include the ancient stuff, as well as what is found in various pats of the world. Remember thqt the article will likely look very different after 100 other editiors have left their marks.

Well in the USA very little of this was even used on facade before about 1850, before then even in Manhattan there were still wood houses as well as mansions in some portions of the island! Most buildings pre 1850 were only a couple or three floors high, very plain, then in the 1860's came the cast iron facades you see in SOHO ordered from catalogues, along with soon thereafter the common "brownstones" but even those were typically plain.

It wasn't till about then and the use of terra cotta that all this sculptural ornamental stuff was used and it really took off big time once terra cotta started to become accepted and some of the bugs were worked out. The first building that used it lasted only one year before the poorly fired clay ornaments began cracking and coming apart. The terra cotta by the way was also usually ordered from catalogues and most companies had stock designs that could be ordered from the photos, so that also makes this era a bit more unique and different than others.

When you go to Europe, ancient time, you typically find stone carvings, and stone carvings might be better served connected to a stone related parent article and ancient history. This article I started was mainly with the American terra cotta in mind as the predominant subject. Maybe a sub article stub might work better for expanding into European (which I know nothing of) and more ancient stone carving ie Parthenon, ancient Greece etc. I haven't looked but there may already be something on the cast-iron facades, as well as the ancient Greek buildings etc. LostNYC 04:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Then you need to consider changing the title of this artilce to something else, that is more in line with what you are thinking. At least use the work terra cotta in it. Otherwise, the tilte as it is now should include stone stuff going way back, as well as Gothic and Mayan and everything else that can be considered to be architectural sculpture. Incidentaly, terra cotta as architectural sculpture was widely used in Italy during the Renaissance long before it made its way to America, so using United States in the title might be a good idea too. Carptrash 15

54, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I changed the title to Architectural Sculpture in America .LostNYC 18:53, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

I just cut this out

• Robert Graham

from the list od architectural sculptors. Althought his gates at the Olympic Stadium might be considered architectural, I can think of little else and don't feel (yes, this is about feelings) that he is in the same league as the others listed. Please feel free to convince me otherwise. Carptrash (talk) 21:39, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

removed a sentence

I just removed "These can be either functional or purely decorative, although in most cases due to their placement on facades of older buildings these ornaments were structural in nature." from the article because it's incorrect. In masonry buildings maybe 10% of the architectural sculpture was structural in any way. You have the odd set of caryatids or atlantes that might support a porch or something like that. The vast majority of sculpture was either cornice figures or finials, riding on top, or bas-reliefs or spandrels panels, admittedly part of the cladding but not structural at all. --Lockley (talk) 18:11, 19 August 2010 (UTC)