Talk:Anticholinergic

Comments

Effects include both bradycardia and tachycardia? Aren't they mutually exclusive? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.25.232.153 (talk) 16:45, 28 November 2009 (UTC) No surprisingly they're not. Things just arent that simple. It might be easier to understand if I say a side effect is a disturbance of the normal heart rhythm (in either direction). Obviously you can't have both happen at the same time you are correct.174.111.231.220 (talk) 02:58, 13 August 2010 (UTC)ANDY

I need desspitly to know what classification benztropine is under, thanks!

1. Benzotropine is an Anti cholingeric, if I am not mistaken. -Anonymous (IP logged obviously)

It's spelled benztropine!

Medically, the term anticholinergic is a misnomer. The correct classification of benztropine, benadryl and other anticholinergics is "cholinergic antagonist". These chemicals bind to cholinergic receptors on the cell in the same way as acetylcholine does. Instead of initiating a response like agonists do, they simply stay attached without eliciting a response, preventing the receptors from being activated. When the antagonist is pushed off the receptor, an acetylcholine molecule can then bind and activate the cell.

    ♦                I'm going to deal with your problems in the order they were written in your statement.
      First of all, since you were a grammar Nazi, I feel it is my duty to correct your poorly-written and wholly hypocritical
      paragraph, which I have done so. To other readers, it was a truly atrocious sight, especially considering the way he (tried)
      to correct the above poster's usage of benztropine by giving him the wrong spelling "benzAtropine". 
      As for the actual content of the post, psychoactive drugs (when classified properly) are classified according to the
      neurotransmitters they affect and how. Agonists mimic the neurotransmitter, antagonists fit in the spot where the
      neurotransmitter should go and stay there without sending the impulse (which essentially blocks the neuron from sending 
      that message), reuptake inhibitors keep the sending neuron from "sucking" the neurotransmitter up to be used again (which
      lets it stay and continue sending the message until the sending neuron defeats the reuptake inhibitor or until it is 
      destroyed by monoamine oxidase), and a few other forms of agonists and antagonists. There are probably more I don't know. 
      To review, cholinergic drugs are acetylcholine agonists and anticholinergics ("anti-" being ancient Greek for against) are
      acetylcholine antagonists. All that being said, I went ahead and fixed the atrocious grammar you used in that hypocritical
      paragraph which, ironically enough, started off with you trying to correct a misspelling with another misspelling. By the
      way, cholinergic has two meanings. A: relating to acetylcholine and B: something that mimics acetylcholine (an acetylcholine
      agonist).
      

• • For the same reason, a substance such as acetylcholine (or black widow venom, curare and atropine...) would be classified as a cholinergic agonist--a substance that mimics acetylcholine and activates the cell. Refering to said substances as simply cholinergics is extreamly missleading. The term "cholinergic" simply denotes that the substance affects the cholinergic receptor sites. Thus the parent group "cholinergic" referst to both cholinergic antagonists (a.k.a anticholinergics) as well as cholinergic agonists (a.k.a cholinergics like acetylcholine).

Curare and atropine are antagonists, not agonists. Aenar 10:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

NOTE: This should be corrected on the wikipedia pages of <<anticholinergic>> and <<cholinergic>> perhaps by redirecting visitors to pages with the correct titles and replacing some of the terminology within.

Second, while Benzatropine is clasified as a cholinergic antagonist (=anticholinergic) that discription is extreamly broad--benzatropine would be more accuratly defined as a DOPAMINE REUPTAKE INHIBITOR (with cholinergic antagonisim as a side-effect). TMany pharmacuticals have chololinergic antagonistic effects, such as trycyclic antidepressentes or benadryl; however one would not primarilly referr to these as cholinergic antagonists (aka anticholinergics) they would be more accuratly reffered to tricyclinc antidepressents, or in the case of benadryl--an antihistamine.

I am not an expert in this field so you may want to do some research on your own and determine for yourself what is true.

Hope this helps. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.191.190.66 (talk) 00:28, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Another mnemonic

I didn't want to add this myself in case it's too crude, but my pharmacology professor taught us this: "Can't see, can't pee, can't spit, can't s***, and tachycardia." That describes the symptoms of blurred vision, decreased urinary output, dry mouth, constipation, and of course a fast heartbeat. Kat, Queen of Typos 01:08, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Benztropine is also called Cogentin. It is classified as either an anticholinergic or as an antiparkinsonian drug; the specific classification for you depends on why it was prescribed. Some people that are prescribed specific psychotropic medications may develop EPS, there are four very specific symptoms of EPS, one of them is uncontrolled shaking, another is excessive drooling. Benztropine helps to control these symptoms. Hope this helps. (KLL, RN) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.2.11.226 (talk) 06:55, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Question

Is anticholergenic something different or just a gross misspelling of Anticholinergic? A google search for the former returns some results but all seem like they really want the latter? Can anyone that knows better shed some light? - Taxman ^Talk 21:35, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

1. In reply to your question, I should assume that the two are different because I wasnt aware that Benadryl (Diphenhydramine) was an Anticholinergic drug. The reason I involve Benadryl is because the first result of a google search on Cholergenic returns http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20031021/msgs/271639.html. - Xer0X 12:35, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

2. I believe answer 1 is in error. Benadryl is an anticholinergic, anticholergenic is a misspelling of anticholinergic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 198.125.162.83 (talk • contribs).

I agree with 2. And I was wondering why antihistamines (H1 receptor antagonists) aren't listed in this article. But I'm not sure if all of them are anticholinergics, or only some. Diphenhydramine and dimenhydrinate are, at least, but the antihistamine article doesn't seem to be very clear on this. --Galaxiaad 09:20, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

==3. I am not sure if this talk is about Benedryl or anticholinergics? I am interested because I have just read an article about anticholinergics decreasing functionality in the elderly (eg.anti reflux, incontinance drugs, etc.) this would then include ssri( anti depressant) drugs surely? Can anyone advise about this 'slowing down' effect on the elderly if not dementia per se?== Liz== —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.243.75.172 (talk) 19:36, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Merge?

Should this article be merged with deliriant? --Thoric 16:25, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

No, an anticholinergic blocks acetylcholine, a delirient is something something that causes the effects characteristic of delirients- which are typically anticholinergics (datura, jimson's weed, amanitas mushrum (fly alagaric, destroying angel, etc.) how ever they are not the same. I think most people will understand this analogy- Antidepressents category contains all the drugs that have a particular effect, which anyone who has watched tv in the past 10 years knows well. Then SSRI's (selective seratonin reuptake inhibitor) are all (typically) antidepressants. Would you merge the two- no- one is a mode of action, and one is an effect, the categories overlap, because a class of drugs that has similar modes of action has similar effects. However not all antidepressants are SSRIs, there are SRAs, SNRIs, DRIs, DRAs, DRIs, TCAs (Seratonin Releasing Agents, Selective Norepinephrine Reuptake Inhibitors, Dopamine Releasing Agents, Dopamine reuptake inhibitors, Tricyclic Antidepressants) Then there are several atypical antidepressants with various modes of action.

Also- think of it this way as well. What is asmatic uses in his inhaler is likely an anticholinergic, the venom of many poisonous animals are anticholinergics, as are several chemical weapons. Would you call those deliriants? Not even close. Just because something his a receptor (or blocks it in this case) it still greatly depends where, and how, and when, and what other effects it has, before it can be grouped under an effect category.174.111.231.220 (talk) 02:53, 13 August 2010 (UTC)Andy

Yes, but not with anything yet mentioned. This article is synon. with http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Cholinesterase_inhibitors . 128.147.28.1 (talk) 17:06, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

useless for the uninitiated

i have just been prescribed this drug and was hoping to find out a little bit about it here. i don't know if it is intentional, but unless you are versed in medicine the information here is pretty much useless. just thought i'd let that be known. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.64.44.85 (talk) 21:14, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree. At least the introduction should be accessible to ordinary people. What does all the technical pharmacological terminology mean? Is there anyone who can prepare a translation into English? (Sorry for the sarcasm. I just mean the problem is serious.)

Some guidelines: Add explanatory remarks to all the technical terms in the introduction. Give some main examples in the intro. Explain in lay language what the technical definition means. Zaslav (talk) 23:03, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

anticholinergic antipsychotics

My brother has been on a antipsychotic medication [clozapine/Leponex (Clozaril in the US) and quetiapine/Seroquel] for many years. He has developed a serious urine retention problem which is a result of the weakening of the bladder muscle caused by the drugs. We therefore need to replace those drugs with others that have a low anti-cholinergic effect. I've read that Olanzapine/Zyprexa could be a solution. Is that accurate? What other drugs would help us avoid further bladder muscle damage? Many thanks

Ambiguous sentence

Under "Effects" there is a sentence which says "Exceptions to the above include scopolamine, orphenadrine, dicycloverine/dicyclomine and first-generation antihistamines with central nervous system penetration.". I think "the above" refers to the list of conditions anticholinergics are used to treat, but it's not entirely clear... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Technome (talk • contribs) 22:16, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

This article needs serious work.

The first sentence stating gabapentin as a cholinergic antagonist is completely and utterly wrong. I could not even bring myself to continue reading the rest of the article. Gabapentin is a Ca++ channel antagonist (alpha2delta subunit of Ca++ channel to be exact) and has absolutely nothing to do with an acetylcholine receptor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.8.121.1 (talk) 13:53, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Effects

"Anticholinergic drugs are usually considered the least enjoyable by experienced recreational drug users,[citation needed] possibly due to the lack of euphoria caused by them. In terms of recreational use, anticholinergics are generally classified as deleriants. Because most users do not enjoy the experience, they do not use it again, or do so very rarely."

The fact that cholinergic antagonists are usually considered the least enjoyable by experienced recreational drug users is a well-known fact; however, I don't know how to cite any sources to support this, given that all of them either reference Wikipedia (this page), or they are posted on forums, esp. in the form of 'experience reports.' — Preceding unsigned comment added by SlimNm (talk • contribs) 02:05, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

News Story

There's quite a big News story about anticholinergics and their effects broken today: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13880553 (based on a study by the UEA) - VJ (talk) 08:33, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

There is no citation

Is it possible to add a reference to this article? If so, how? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.173.129.194 (talk) 05:33, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Medical uses

Possibly worthy of note: Anticholinergics are sometimes used in the treatment of Parkinson's Disease and Parkinsonism. It has something to do with the balance of dopamine and acetylcholine (spelling?), and its use reduces tremor symptoms. This is way out of my area of study, but I'm noting it in the hopes that it can be referenced and added eventually.67.167.106.3 (talk) 18:13, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Should shaking be tremor?

In section Acute Anticholinergic Syndrome, it references shaking as a symptom. Would that be more correct as tremor?67.167.106.3 (talk) 09:18, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

"Cardiac toxicity" cite

Under Acute Anticholinergic Syndrome/Remedies the article states " Previously, reversible cholinergic agents such as physostigmine were used but this was found to increase the risk of cardiac toxicity (no reference; unable to verify in PubMed literature search 12/31/11)^{[citation needed]}" A Google Scholar search produces a link to THA—A Review of the Literature and Its Use in Treatment of Five Overdose Patients, 1980, Vol. 16, No. 3 , Pages 269-281 (doi:10.3109/15563658008989949), William K. Summers, Kenneth R. Kaufman, Frank Altman and John M. Fischer (http://informahealthcare.com/doi/abs/10.3109/15563658008989949). The brief excerpt on Google includes the blurb "Cardiac toxicity has been noted in the use of physostigmine and other anticholinesterases [ 12, 15, 211. In contrast, THA, despite potent anticholinesterase activity, is not reported to have serious cardiac toxicity," but I have no access to any better abstract, full article, or even just the review's citations. Maybe someone else with journal access can track down these sources and confirm the factoid. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.3.42.169 (talk) 17:02, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Exceptions to what?

The section 'medical and recreational uses' says "Exceptions to the above include [list of drugs]."

It's not clear which bit of 'the above' is meant. CarrieVS (talk) 22:11, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

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dementia

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/06/24/health/dementia-risk-drug-study/index.html indicates there is an increased risk of dementia in individuals takingcertain types of these drugs. Kdammers (talk) 02:14, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Why are "anticholinergic" and "cholinergic blocking drug" two separate pages?

These pages are almost identical, although "Cholinergic blocking drug" is more detailed. Both articles list medical uses, side effects, intoxication (and treatment of intoxication), and both articles use the same basic classification system (antimuscarinic / antinicotinic). Am I missing something here or could these pages be merged? Jack 46189 (talk) 10:18, 1 February 2023 (UTC)