Talk:Alpha Kappa Rho

Puffery, bloat and unsubstantiated claims

I support fraternal organizations. I am not interested in adding fuel to the low-level conflict between Philippine groups calling themselves fraternities. As I've watched their conflict unfold, each tries to top the other, with claims of more and more chapters, and adding flags for more and more countries. Yet these groups are perhaps four decades old. The claims made of having "10,000 chapters" in four dozen countries just do not ring true. These claims are unsubstantiated with no source citations or third-party confirmation. The editors making these claims are exceedingly emotionally involved in pressing them, and engaging in edit wars.

Look, these claims would make these Philippine fraternities the largest fraternities in the world, and without any evidence to prove the claim, the whole idea is dubious at best. Wikipedia depends on factual sources. These unsubstantiated claims would make these groups among the largest commercial entities in the world - not just as fraternities. Yet they don't even have websites, relying on a few Facebook pages and scant mention in newspapers, mostly about gang-like violence. As we used to say in the US, "I call Shenanigans."

This problem doesn't just affect Alpha Kappa Rho, but all the Philippine groups that appear as rivals. Jax MN (talk) 19:46, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Jax MN I'm an Alpha Phi Omega brother for which Alpha Phi Omega (Philippines) has about 300 active chapters and 400 alumni associations (see List of Alpha Phi Omega (Philippines) chapters and alumni associations and counting the fraternity and sorority chapters at a school as one) and Alpha Phi Omega (USA) has about 700 charters of which about half are active). So saying that Alpha Phi Omega internationally has had 1000 chapters isn't much of an exaggeration.

Alpha Kappa Rho (also called the Skeptrons) is, like Alpha Phi Omega, often talked about as one of the most significant dozen groups in the Philippines (see https://www.sunstar.com.ph/ampArticle/356044 for example). From what I've seen Alpha Kappa Rho also does community chapters in a way that Alpha Phi Omega does not (I believe that Alpha Phi Omega *requires* that those becoming brothers and sisters be college students, but Alpha Kappa Rho will allow in community chapters). So a thousand chapters wouldn't *particularly* surprise me. It *of course* needs to be referenced, but see standard issues for Philippines groups. See https://www.google.com/search?q=%22alpha+kappa+rho%22+site:inquirer.net+chapters for a variety of chapters mentioned in different places in the Philippines.

Alpha Phi Omega is the only large Greek Letter Organization in the Philippines that I've seen an official national webpage someplace that isn't some place like wixsite. (A few of the notable single school law fraternities have National pages that aren't that bad).Naraht (talk) 21:37, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

Cordially, note that their claim was 10,000 chapters, not 1,000. While I certainly believe the scope, permanence and notability of Alpha Phi Omega in the Philippines, these other social and activist fraternities don't have anywhere close that that level of confirmability or sources (none that I've found, at least). I surmise, therefore, (Occam's razor?) that the intense rivalry between the groups has fueled them to continue trying to one-up each other with bloated claims, using Wikipedia as an unfiltered place to promote those claims. If proof is established, I will happily defer to that, and support citing a larger, confirmable number of chapters, countries and lifetime initiates. But bloat and imaginative puffery seems the most logical explanation. I ask the Skeptrons to address the issue of a working website, provide an actual chapter list with portal links to the schools, verifying the chapters' existence, and to establish a nominal physical office before making what appear to be outrageous claims. Jax MN (talk) 21:54, 26 February 2022 (UTC)

A few points here. First, entirely possibly on the one upmanship, but I think part of the issue is the question is how they are counting non-collegiate chpters. Second, It requires further investigation and I'd say that the 3 currently listed has no more validity than any other number. IMO, the first should be left blank rather than continue with 3. Third, ghaving an actualy website, chapter list, portal links and a nominal physical office are at best Primary sites, and as such a single mention of chapter numbers on philstar.com or inquirer.net (two of the Philippines national news sources) would be vastly superior.Naraht (talk) 05:50, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Example (as a guide to size for Alpha Kappa Rho) https://www.officialgazette.gov.ph/2014/08/08/message-of-president-aquino-to-the-alpha-kappa-rho-toronto-chapter-on-the-occasion-of-their-41st-founding-anniversary-august-8-2014/ is a message from President (of the Philippines) Aquino to the Alpha Kappa Rho chapter in Toronto. A couple of comments on this data point. First Toronto isn't even in the top 10 cities in the world in number of Filipinos and secondly, it indicates that their location in Toronto is called a chapter as opposed to other Philippine GLOs which might have an Alumni Association there.Naraht (talk) 17:36, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Chapter count ref?

Jax MN How about using the number from https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/top-philippine-fraternities-and-sororities-382649/10/ ? Or is the fact it is a blog disqualifying... Naraht (talk) 14:14, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi Naraht. You know what I am about to write, so I do so with the intent of explaining to more casual readers and editors. At least this blog, from 2015, offers some sort of citable reference. I cannot confirm it is correct. In this apparent turf war, between the Skeptrons and Triskilians and probably others, their tiresome, anonymous effort seems to be to use Wikipedia to put forward specious and uncited numbers, which appear wildly inflated from the actual chapter count. It's a clear effort to one-up each other, facts be damned. I grant that these Philippines fraternities don't have the benefit of regular media coverage, and because they are often community-based and not tied to schools, they likely don't have the benefit of school portal linkages. Still, the websites for these organizations are woefully inadequate, if they exist at all, and do not categorically list chapters beyond a few. Hence, I don't believe the claim for 500 or 1,000 chapters that is routinely offered here. My unbiased advice to these fraternities, and all Filipino fraternities, is to work on a legitimate, verifiable presence, with chapter information on permanent, national websites, and to do the hard work of good community relations, seeking occasional media publicity. Wikipedia follows these citable sources, and does not provide them as first-position sources. Again, I am writing for the benefit of AKRho members and supporters. Jax MN (talk) 17:26, 21 August 2024 (UTC)