Talk:Abu Tor

	Palestine portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Israel Mid‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Project Israel To Do:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles.
Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page.
Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration.
Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005
Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel.
Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah
See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia.
Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data.
Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes.
Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention.
Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel.
NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries
Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel.
Stubs : See Israel stubs.
Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People
Other :
- Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary.

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Further information

The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are:

Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive.
Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required.

With respect to the WP:1RR restriction:

Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring.
Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions.
Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

el Mukuddasi or el Cudsi?

The article states Abu Tor is named after "Sheikh Shehab ed Din el Mukaddasi". The Survey of Western Palestine - Jerusalem volume references the Survey of Western Palestine - List of Names volume, this is where the name is given, but the Names volume gives a further reference:

"Sheikh Ahmed of the bull; also called Abu Tor, the man with the bull. His real name was Sheikh Shehab ed Din el Mukuddasi. See Besant and Palmer's Jerusalem p. 432. He lived in the time of Saladin."

If you actually do see that reference, the name "el Mukuddasi" is nowhere to be found. It reads instead:

Sheikh Shehab-ed-din el Cudsi was also a Khatib, or preacher, in Jerusalem ; he was present with Saladin at the taking of the city, and received the soubriquet of Abu Tor, "The Father of the Bull", because he was in the habit of riding upon one of those animals, and fighting from its back. Saladin bestowed upon him a small village, near the Jaffa gate, in which was the monastery of St. Mark, where he lived and died. Both the monastery and the hill upon which it stands are now called after him, Abu Tor. It is related of him, that when he wanted any provisions he used to write an order and tie it on the neck of his favourite bull, which would go straight to the bazaars and bring back the articles required.

[1]

So, did the authors of the Survey error here, possibly confusing him with Al-Muqaddasi the historian or another figure, or are the names just synonyms? (As they are both tied to Names of Jerusalem; Mukaddasi/Bayt al-Maqdis, el Cudsi/Al Quds) Any thoughts? :) 67.161.254.8 (talk) 15:57, 19 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Interesting question. I am no linguist, but I suspect that el Cudsi comes from Al Quds....which is another name for Jerusalem. In other words: the names sounds like synonyms to me, too. Cheers, Huldra (talk) 19:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes it is a good question. I don't think the authors of the Survey would think that the historian Al-Muqaddasi lived in the time of Saladin though, they were too familiar with the sources for that. Here is another version from the PEF Quarterly 1877, written by Conder, (p100): "South of Jerusalem is the Deir Abu Tôr, where is the monument of Abu Tor, or Sheikh Ahmed et Tori, 'the father of the bull.' This worthy, whose name was Sheikh Shehāb ed Dîn el Kǔdesy, 'the sacred hero of the faith,' was a follower of Saladin, who in 1187 gave him the monastery of St. Mark, now called Deir Abu Tor. Professor Palmer tells us that he derived his name from riding on a tame bull." Zero^talk 02:14, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Added it to the Biblio, but to me it sounds as if Conder just took that from Besant and Palmer, see p. 432. Huldra (talk) 21:18, 13 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Tawfiq Canaan gave an interesting looking Mujir al-Din (1456–1522), reference, which I added. And I just removed the Nisba of Sheikh Shehab ed Din. Mujir al-Din is the earliest writer we have so far referring to the story, Huldra (talk) 22:26, 5 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Abu Tor. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 5 June 2024).

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 02:10, 3 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]