Talk:2023 Tennessee House of Representatives expulsions

Did the 3 representatives vote?

According to multiple sources I've read, all three of the representatives actually voted on the resolutions before the two were expelled. In fact, one source, I believe it was from WKRN, actually described Pearson's vote as the deciding vote that prevented Johnson's removal. This also appears consistent with the maps provided. Bneu2013 (talk) 20:02, 7 April 2023 (UTC)

Honestly, I am a bit confused. Based on these three sources, HR0065, HR0064, and HR0063, there are three times that a "Johnson G" voted no and zero times that "Pearson" or "Jones" voted in the Votes section. And because of how the Tennessee General Assembly website works, I am not sure how to confirm if they voted and their names were removed or if they did not vote. --Super Goku V (talk) 04:44, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure the did now, but regardless, we should include in the percentages of the vacant/didn't votes as their share of the total number of possible votes, which shrunk from 99 to 98 after the first expulsion. Bneu2013 (talk) 09:26, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Yes. Johnson and Pearson voted no on all the expulsions while Jones voted no on his (before being expelled). Elli (talk | contribs) 10:17, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Both the prose and the boxes are inaccurate here and should be corrected to match with this source. Pearson and Jones are likely not listed on the legislative tracking page because they were expelled from the house or something, but the math doesn't add up if you assume they didn't vote. Elli (talk | contribs) 10:40, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

Thanks to both AlexEng and ElijahPepe's edit summaries (specifically Special:Diff/1148705404 & Special:Diff/1148673628), along with this discussion, I was able to somewhat straighten out what happened. The TGA website kept the numbers accurate, but excluded the names of the members they expelled post-vote and also didn't list those who voted present. But there is still a problem. The House has 99 seats and the first vote went 72-25 to make 97. The Tennessee Lookout source mentions that Rep. Sam Whitson, R-Franklin, was present but did not vote on Jones’ expulsion resolution, but that means that we only have a total of 98. So who was the 99th vote and what happened? --Super Goku V (talk) 02:25, 9 April 2023 (UTC)

I spent way too much time on this, and I'm going to hatnote some of the work to spare you the extra reading.

Various calculations based on data on TN General Assembly's website

Based on the data on the TN GA's website for each vote: [Sourced] The following 7 people voted for expelling Justin Jones but did not vote for expelling Gloria Johnson. Barrett Bricken Gillespie Richey Russell Sparks Terry [Sourced] Of those 7 people, the following 5 voted against expelling Johnson. Barrett Bricken Richey Russell Sparks [Inferred] The remaining 2 people did not vote on the resolution to expel Johnson. Gillespie Terry So Gloria Johnson's table should reflect 2 votes that were disqualified/vacant and 2 members not voting. Now onto Jones' vote totals. [Sourced] The following 6 people voted against expelling Gloria Johnson but did not vote against expelling Justin Jones: Barrett Bricken Richey Russell Sparks Whitson [Sourced] Of those 6 people, the following 5 voted for expelling Jones. Barrett Bricken Richey Russell Sparks [Inferred] The remaining 1 person did not vote on the resolution to expel Jones. Whitson So Justin Jones' table should reflect 2 votes that were disqualified/vacant and 1 member not voting.

I wrote a short script to do the math, and the following number of names are on the TN GA website for each resolution. I'm comparing them with the numbered vote totals provided on the same website.

Quantity of names vs. numbers on the website

Vote to expel Justin Jones?
	Yes	No	Total	Notes
Names	72	23	95	Whitson is not included in either column. Haston is not included in either column.
Numbers	72	25	97	In addition to the above, Pearson's and Jones' votes are not counted.
Vote to expel Gloria Johnson?
	Yes	No	Total	Notes
Names	65	29	94	Gillespie is not included in either column. Terry is not included in either column. Haston is not included in either column.
Numbers	65	30	95	In addition to the above, Pearson's and Jones' votes are not counted

The website appears to have errors. They neglected to add Haston's name on both votes. Whitson is also missing from the Jones vote. Gillespie and Terry also did not vote on the Johnson resolution, but it's not as serious, since they were not included in the totals. Haston's vote appears to have been counted as a "No" for Johnson. Whitson's vote appears to have been counted as a "No" as well. Hope that's somewhat helpful. I'm burnt out. AlexEng^(TALK) 22:00, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

@AlexEng: I have taken a second look at the tables and attempted to amend them thanks to your help. My main problem is with Jones in that if I attempt to make it so that it shows 2 votes that were disqualified/vacant and 1 member not voting, then I have 100 total votes based on the count from reliable sources. I don't know how exactly to rectify that. --Super Goku V (talk) 20:49, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

Content from Mediaite

I removed content sourced to Mediaite and was reverted by @Red Slapper.

According to WP:RS/P#Mediaite, this source is marginally reliable and should be avoided. Additionally, it is a repetition of content from Fox & Friends which is definetely unreliable per WP:FOXNEWS. ––FormalDude (talk) 13:09, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Please don't misrepresent what WP:RS/P#Mediaite says, which is "There is some consensus that Mediaite is only marginally reliable, and should be avoided where better sources are available. ". After your removal, the section was unbalanced, providing only the voice of the critics. Red Slapper (talk) 13:21, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I would suggest you find reliable sources then if you want to try to add balance. Do note that we assign weight to viewpoints in proportion to their prominence in reliable sources, so if there aren't reliable sources with opposing viewpoints, that doesn't meant it's not balanced. ––FormalDude (talk) 16:17, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

You are begging the question. There's no prohibition on using Mediaite. Red Slapper (talk) 16:32, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not, Mediaite is indeed a poor source and this example being from Fox & Friends makes it even worse, so it shouldn't be used. ––FormalDude (talk) 16:43, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, you are, and that is not what WP:RS/P#Mediaite says. Your point about the comment being made on F&F is nonsensical. Suppose that instead of Mediate, CNN had disparagingly commented on the F&F story - would that detract from CNN's reliability? Of course not. Red Slapper (talk) 16:51, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

I've requested a third opinion. ––FormalDude (talk) 10:20, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Response to third opinion request (Disagreement about the reliability of a source):

I am responding to a third opinion request for this page. I have made no previous edits on 2023 Tennessee House of Representatives expulsions and have no known association with the editors involved in this discussion. The third opinion process is informal and I have no special powers or authority apart from being a fresh pair of eyes.

Red Slapper is not using Mediate to substantiate facts; rather, they're using it to a quote from someone with a POV, and I don't think there's a dispute that they're properly quoting Rep. Farmer. That said, given that we're discussing the "Reactions" section of the article, I think that a better POV can be found, perhaps from someone who was not in the Tennessee House. A different source might also obviate this dispute. voorts (talk/contributions) 23:55, 29 May 2023 (UTC)