Draft talk:Bhargav Sri Prakash

Help requested

I have been writing this article about a living person based on what I read online. I am not an experienced editor. Please provide your critical feedback and if you think this person is notable as per established criteria and if this is worth submitting for review. KrisJohanssen (talk) 13:18, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

This article was deleted last year, see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bhargav Sri Prakash. The reasons for deletion are still relevant. The draft makes claims about the subject's tennis achievements which are not supported by the sources cited. The subject claims to have invented a "digital vaccine" which is effective against Covid; but it's not a vaccine and there's no evidence that it's effective. Maproom (talk) 07:25, 13 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the insights and feedback. Yes, I have read the article about the subject that was deleted. As you see in the deletion log that you shared above editors were requesting 2 - 3 reliable secondary sources. Only after that date of deletion have several articles from Business Line of The Hindu emerged.

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/business-tech/how-ai-aided-digital-vaccines-can-be-a-game-changer/article65389614.ece

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/companies/indian-entrepreneur-gets-us-patent-for-digital-vaccine/article65381532.ece

Based on these I have tried to add about his tennis and his invention of digital vaccines.

"Prakash, 45, played professional tennis in his younger days and represented India in international junior tennis events."

"But Prakash’s invention is the first vaccine."

Other articles can be found here

There is a link to a prestigious global award given by IFC (World Bank) and Financial Times

https://transformationalbusiness.live.ft.com/page/2380759/2022-winners

I found this market research report published about digital vaccines created by a company and announced via PR newswire

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-digital-vaccine-market-report-185000938.html

This is from the Economic Times and Times of India

https://government.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/digital-india/indias-digital-vaccine-that-prevents-real-world-health-issues-through-metaverse-gets-first-global-patent/92074654

This looks like it is from the Government of India

https://indiaai.gov.in/article/can-ai-powered-digital-vaccines-open-the-door-for-innovation

Kindly forgive I made a mistake as I am new to article writing note that I am only trying to synthesise based on reliable secondary sources such as and am by no means a digital vaccine expert to describe it in my own words or assess the effectiveness. I must admit that I am fascinated by what I have read and that is why I thought I should write. Here are a few links to what appear to be his work accepted after peer review at medical conferences at Stanford School of Medicine under PCOR & CER

https://medicinex.stanford.edu/ed-2018-presentations/#1466453233937-fd1ec662-5558

This is an article from Carnegie Mellon University

https://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2023/august/revolutionizing-health-care-harnessing-artificial-intelligence-for-better-patient-care

Some one has written about it from Brown University Alpert School of Medicine

https://digitalhealth.med.brown.edu/news/2020-12-04/digital-vaccines

Here is an article from Johns Hopkins University Bloomberg School of Public Health

https://ccp.jhu.edu/2021/03/01/game-helps-indian-children-choose-healthier-foods-2/

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=xsFVDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA187&lpg=PA187&dq=fooya+digital+vaccine+systematic+review&source=bl&ots=c0eFrjUJRV&sig=ACfU3U00AekQt7U1D2h1txkSKj2CXgxG_g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjzmtmaje6AAxUn1zgGHWn9AosQ6AF6BAgjEAM#v=onepage&q=fooya%20digital%20vaccine%20systematic%20review&f=false

Please guide me to improve this article. Thanks. KrisJohanssen (talk) 15:56, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks Kintomechanic for your edits. I forgot about this article for a while! Just logged in. Appreciate your contributions. Requesting your and other editors to improve and let me know if this will be worthy of submission for review KrisJohanssen (talk) 08:15, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits

Dear Ldm1954, I am very grateful for your edits to improve the tone of my draft. Since this is my first article please forgive the mistakes that I am making in trying to research and write :( I am grateful for your guidance about ways to improve my editorial and wikipedia authoring skills. For your kind ref I am sharing this article in Business Line of The Hindu which mentions Prakash's tennis. I added a section about tennis in his early life because I felt that representing one's country in any international sport especially as well known as tennis is worthy of mentioning in BLP article. "Prakash, 45, played professional tennis in his younger days and represented India in international junior tennis events."

https://www.thehindubusinessline.com/business-tech/how-ai-aided-digital-vaccines-can-be-a-game-changer/article65389614.ece

I may not have added an acceptable citation to the early life section to back up his achievements in tennis but from my research the hindu is to be considered a reliable independent source of record WP:Reliable sources/Perennial sources.

I also see that you removed the description of digital vaccines quoted in the draft from an article archive, which was originally published by Brown university Alpert Medical school. I was advised by experienced and kind editors of the tea house such as Hoary who suggested that I should include an independent 3rd party description of digital vaccines. You have also removed the inventor attribution and replaced it with being involved in development, as was reported in at least 2 reliable secondary sources. I am not sure if that will eventually lead to questioning his notability.

Seek your guidance and suggestions about anything else I should remove or about ways to improve. please do let me know.

Thank you, KrisJohanssen (talk) 10:32, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

The first problem with this article is that it was (and still is) full of big claims which are hard to impossible to verify. As a couple of examples:

The statement that he worked on "thermodynamics, computational fluid dynamics and experimental tribology" is a vast overstatement since he only did a MS. (I have published in tribology.) Plus neither of the two refences [27] and [28] validate his MS.

The claims that "he has worked on the evolution of gamification..." and the rest of that sentence are fluff. There is no evidence that he did anything notable.

The claim that he has software at libraries in US Consulates is unverified. In any case whether it is notable is unclear.

My suggestion

• Go through the article and look at every claim. Ask if it is standard or notable. If standard then its relevance is marginal and it probably should not be there.
• Remove trivia.
• Avoid over-referencing WP:REFBOMB.
• Keep it clean and short.
• Read carefully the guidelines WP:N and WP:BLP, also WP:GNG and WP:MILL. You need to create an article that does not annoy with fluff, but convinces. You have a lot of rewriting to do!

Ldm1954 (talk) 02:48, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you again for your prompt and detailed feedback, @Ldm1954.

Please find the following two websites on the University of Michigan domain. I came across these before but did not include them in the draft as per the suggestion of a few Teahouse editors to remove references that may be linked to Prakash. However since the question that you raise here pertains to his academic work and credentials, I guess a Umich.edu article makes sense to reference, even if Umich.edu is his alma mater. Are either of these usable to validate his Masters and specialisation at UMich?

the article

states, "Bhargav Sri Prakash began his career in entrepreneurship as a graduate student at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor where he obtained a Masters in Automotive Engineering, specializing in computational fluid dynamics and thermodynamics, fueled by his interest in racing"

This is his abstract bio, it is not independent.

His Automotive Engineering degree from the Univ of Michigan is also referenced here

Also not independent

As for his work with gamification and metaverse, I found an article from Interesting Engineering about the history of the metaverse that describes his work with Vmerse from 2004. It states "In 2004, an American-Indian inventor Bhargav Sri Prakash launched Vmerse metaverse, a real-time, consumer-facing, virtual reality simulation that was developed to support real-world applications, such as the college recruitment process, alumni relations management, emergency response training programs, etc. The University of Michigan used Vmerse to provide assistance to applicants from underserved sections of society in their admission process. The technology was later implemented by other institutes in the US as well including Stanford University, Louisiana State University, and many others. Moreover, the United States Department of State used Vmerse to guide foreign students about the admission process in American universities."

This is a blog, and has no verified sources. You need statements from the actual universities

Would you also please let me know about whether

a. The Hindu Business Line article that mentioned his tennis career and that he played for his country as a junior in International tournaments can serve as a reference about his personal and early life.

This is behind a paywall so cannot be verified

b. The digital vaccines description from the article from Brown University should be in the article as teahouse editors had suggested.

That is up to you. To me it is peacock.

c. The attribution of him being the inventor belongs in the draft as per the article in FirstPost

I just discovered something fascinating - a coexistence settlement by searching on the USPTO website between Prakash and Friendslearn vs Moderna therapeutics. It looks like the public record of settlement was dated 2019 and was possible after several years. it looks like Prakash and his team was represented by Phil Malone from Stanford University Law School I am not able to find anything in the main stream media about the settlement. Please guide me as I am not sure what to make of it. The settlement includes legal definitions of digital vaccines.

What is the relevance?

Thank you.

KrisJohanssen (talk) 11:57, 6 March 2024 (UTC) KrisJohanssen (talk) 11:57, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Some comments inline Ldm1954 (talk) 13:19, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

You are using unreliable sources. What you need, for instance are:

• For his MS the commencement PDF from the university that shows he graduated
• If you want to claim that universities and embassies extensively use his product, you need a statement from them not a blog.
• If he played for India, a record of that not some hearsay report.

Various editors before me have questioned this article, and I think it has been deleted before. You are still including unverified peacock. Ldm1954 (talk) 13:26, 6 March 2024 (UTC)

Thank you @Ldm1954 for the specific examples of sources for his degree and any university announcements/records. I will try to see if I can find anything online. I also really really appreciate that you took the time to read/edit my draft to improve my tone. I was going by the language in the sources without realising that the tone of those articles was not suitable for Wikipedia. Other experienced editors provided me extremely valuable feedback but I was going in circles trying to understand the meaning and guidelines. Would remain additionally grateful for any further edits that you may be able to contribute. My motivation is to see my first draft get accepted as I have spent a lot of time on this effort without realising what I signed up for initially. I could use all the help you would be kind enough to provide

KrisJohanssen (talk) 10:55, 8 March 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Ldm1954, this article was deleted as you point out in 02/2022. The BLP article existed on the English Wikipedia for several years with contributions from multiple editors and having survived at least one discussion for deletion. There was a decision to keep the article. Please find the link to the article archived in April 2014 There definitely appears to be a discussion among editors about COI edits and the added content was reverted as per policy.

I am not sure how a BLP article that existed for 8 years can be deleted/ with the subject questioned for notability and his education credentials. It is hard to imagine that the article escaped the radar of reliable wikipedia editors for 8 years! The BLP article exists currently in Tamil and should logically be questioned for notabiility?

Surely it must have to do with growing prominence of his research and publications with "digital vaccines" during the the pandemic. The first archived snapshot of the wikipedia article mentioning 'digital vaccines' is from 2017. Not to mention the growing hype around AI and metaverse. While buzz words came in to being recently one must know that virtual reality simulations are very much a synthesis of artificial intelligence and metaverse. You can also read about the history of the subject's mother's article which invokes the subject as topic of associated discussion among editors with several editors alleging that there is an overlap of paid COI editing.

@KrisJohanssen I think you have signed up for a very challenging first article. I would advise that perhaps you should try to write some other topic. Stick with American or European topics and people. There are strong systemic biases that may not be worth fighting as you pursue growth and exposure for yourself. Wikipedia is very much a platform of the western world for the benefit of the western world. Good luck!

Kintomechanic (talk) 08:36, 10 March 2024 (UTC) Kintomechanic (talk) 08:36, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

I am really not sure what to say because I only tried to create an article for a person who I thought deserved an article. I already have spent countless hours on this project and I hope so that I will be able to bring this work to some acceptable state. I am admittedly learning and therefore I am naive about the systemic biases within wikipedia but if I may say so, I feel that I disagree about any attitude of western imposed standards of elitism and lack of acceptance of sources / style of writing from other countries.

@Kintomechanic I believe you must be aware that this subject of this article is based in the US and is US educated. FriendsLearn and Carnegie Mellone uni are also US. So it is not fair to label me or this draft article as eastern or western.

Regardless of what happens to this article I have learned a lot thanks to the kindness of many of the experienced editors in the teahouse and via talk pages. I am sorry if I messed up. I also have now understood that even experienced wikipedia editors have inconsistent views. One person's suggestions for improvement are rejected by some one else as peacock for ex. the 3rd party independent description of a digital vaccine. Please help me achieve a better article that is worthy of the subject and I seek help from everyone to help me over come my inexperience with wikipedia. KrisJohanssen (talk) 14:19, 11 March 2024 (UTC)