Template:Did you know nominations/SS Yarmouth

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 05:53, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

SS Yarmouth

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Yarmouth owned and manned by colored men

~~... that the SS Yarmouth a coaster from Nova Scotia was the flagship of Marcus Garvey's Black Star Line, which he jokily named after the White Star Line of Titanic fame?~~ http://www.blackpast.org/aah/black-star-line-1919-1923 Black Star Line (1919-1923) Foster, Hannah
- ALT1:~~... that the the SS Yarmouth a Boston ferry was the flagship of Marcus Garvey's Black Star Line, whose name was a play on the White Star Line of Titanic fame?~~ http://www.blackpast.org/aah/black-star-line-1919-1923 Black Star Line (1919-1923) Foster, Hannah
  - ALT2:~~... that the the SS Yarmouth a Boston ferry was the flagship of Marcus Garvey's Black Star Line, whose name was a jab at the White Star Line of Titanic fame?~~ http://www.blackpast.org/aah/black-star-line-1919-1923 Black Star Line (1919-1923) Foster, Hannah
    - ALT3:~~... that the SS Yarmouth a ferry from Nova Scotia was the flagship of the Black Star Line, a jab at the White Star Line of Titanic fame?~~ http://www.blackpast.org/aah/black-star-line-1919-1923 Black Star Line (1919-1923) Foster, Hannah
    - ALT4:~~... that in 1919 the SS Yarmouth was owned and manned by colored men?~~ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SS_Yarmouth,_c1920.jpg

Created by Broichmore (talk). Self-nominated at 11:52, 21 July 2018 (UTC).

Working on reviewing this DKY. Will get back to you soon!--White Shadows ^{Let’s Talk} 03:33, 26 July 2018 (UTC)

General eligibility:

New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

Cited: - Offline/paywalled citation accepted in good faith
Interesting:
Other problems:

Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
Freely licensed: Used in article: Clear at 100px:

QPQ: Done.

Invalid status "Y" - use one of "y", "?", "maybe", "no" or "again"

Hi, I came by to promote this, but I feel the hook is leading me away from the target article toward more and more interesting articles. Don't you have something to say about the ferry itself? Yoninah (talk) 00:21, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

I see your point. What to do? Take out the links?

ALT3: ~~... that the SS Yarmouth a ferry from Nova Scotia was the flagship of the Black Star Line, a jab at the White Star Line of Titanic fame?~~

Or a complete rewrite.

ALT4: ~~... that the SS Yarmouth (linked) was owned and manned by colored men?~~ - Broichmore (talk) 10:51, 3 August 2018 (UTC)

"Colored men" doesn't sound appropriate to me. "African Americans", perhaps? Gatoclass (talk) 13:52, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

That photo and its caption was created by an Afro American, I don't agree that we should be re-write history or ignore it for PC reasons. As it happens the whole article was built round this image. I don't see anything wrong with ALT 4; it's ambivalent as it is, the project has never allowed PC sentiment to guide it before...-- Broichmore (talk) 15:24, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Revised attempt. Thanks--Broichmore (talk) 09:12, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

@Broichmore: I gave the article a copyedit. I added two "clarification needed" notes, one in the first paragraph under "The Black Star Line", where it is not clear why two purchase dates are given; the other under "The Mail Fraud case", where it is not clear at all what you're talking about. If you want to mention this, please add a sentence or two to explain what it is. I didn't tag the lead, but the lead does not summarize the main points of the article and should be expanded before this appears on the main page.
Regarding the hooks, it's not going to help to take out the links, because someone else will put them back in. The ownership by African Americans doesn't seem hooky on its own. Perhaps you could work something around the purchase price falling? Or:

All-black crew of the Yarmouth

ALT5: ... that on arriving in Cuba in 1920, the SS Yarmouth (crew pictured), flagship of Marcus Garvey's Black Star Line, was hailed as the "Ark of the Covenant of the colored people"?
One more thing. The image supplied with this nomination is a little busy with the picture at the top and the wording at the bottom. I suggest this image, though someone needs to crop out the caption at the bottom. Yoninah (talk) 22:23, 4 August 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. I'll get on with the improvements.-- Broichmore (talk) 15:24, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

I've made all the changes as recommended, hopefully the article is acceptable to you now? Broichmore (talk) 18:45, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, Broichmore, everything looks in order. But since I wrote ALT5, we need another editor to review the hook. Pinging @White Shadows: who did the original review. Yoninah (talk) 19:59, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm not aware of what current DKY policy is regarding re-reviewing nominations (forgive me, I've been away from Wikipedia for 6 years), but I'm willing to review it again if you'd like!--White Shadows ^{Let’s Talk} 20:22, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

@White Shadows: sorry I wasn't clear. You already did the review. But a new hook (ALT5) has been proposed, and that needs to be reviewed for verifiability and inline cite. The new proposed image also has to be reviewed regarding licensing. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 20:50, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

New reviewer needed for ALT5. Yoninah (talk) 23:13, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

I think the hook is technically okay, but I am not comfortable with the language as the term "colored people" is considered offensive by some. Yes, I know it's a quote from its time (when the use of such terms was more politically correct), and I know WP:NOTCENSORED, but still. With that said, I'm willing to approve it given the circumstances of the quote; however, I would also like to suggest the following ALT, and see if the nominator Broichmore and reviewers White Shadows and Yoninah like it:

ALT6 ... that the SS Yarmouth (pictured) served as the flagship of Marcus Garvey's Black Star Line initiative, which would serve as the inspiration for the black star in the Flag of Ghana?

If the other editors don't like it, I will approve ALT5. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 11:07, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Flag of Ghana

@Narutolovehinata5: I understand your concerns about ALT5. I don't mind ALT6, but as I mentioned earlier, the thumbnail image of the ship has a little picture of someone in the upper righthand corner that is very distracting. The other images of the ship in the article aren't great either. Another option is to use the flag of Ghana.
ALT6a: ... that the SS Yarmouth served as the flagship of Marcus Garvey's Black Star Line initiative, which would serve as the inspiration for the black star in the Flag of Ghana (pictured)? Yoninah (talk) 20:55, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

@Narutolovehinata5: The only problem with ALT6/6a is that it starts with the subject and then sails off to other subjects. Yoninah (talk) 21:13, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Some perspective here. ALT4 and ALT5 were originated by and taken directly from Afro American sources. However I listened to the criticism and eventually and somewhat reluctantly agreed with ALT5, and a different accompanying image. I personally favour ALT5 and the original image, both of which originated from 1920 and both of which were created with pride, and I dont personally see malice in them. -Broichmore (talk) 14:48, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

Noted. As the nominator's preference is ALT5 and the other reviewers appear to be fine with that, I'm approving it. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 02:56, 7 September 2018 (UTC)