Talk:Sistema Ox Bel Ha

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Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved as WP:RM process was uncontested. Deacon of Pndapetzim (Talk) 15:02, 22 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ox Bel Ha Cave System → Sistema Ox Bel Ha — Sistema Ox Bel Ha is the official name used by both the National Speleological Society and the Quintana Roo Speleological Survey; see also Sistema Sac Actun, Sistema Dos Ojos, Sistema Nohoch Nah Chich. Alfie ↑↓© 18:54, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Survey

Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with *'''Support''' or *'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with ~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's policy on article titles.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Discussion

Any additional comments:

I didn't simply move it myself, because right now Sistema Ox Bel Ha redirects to Ox Bel Ha Cave System – I wasn't sure whether doing so would have resulted in circular links. Alfie ↑↓© 18:54, 15 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Surveyed length?

Sistema_Ox_Bel_Ha#cite_note-CINDAQ-2 gives the surveyed length with 435.805 km (270.797 mi) as of January 2023. IMHO, the sole valid source is maintained by the Quintana Roo Speleological Survey, giving with Nov. 2022 only 346.798 km (215.490 mi). According to historical data of the QRSS the largest increase in surveyed length happened with 44.5 km (27.7 mi) between May 1998 and April 1999. Failed the CINDAQ to officially report results of its new survey or was it not considered trustworthy by the QRSS? A difference of 89 km (55 mi) would be massive and without precedent in the exploration history of Ox Bel Ha. On the other hand, at least two authors of the CINDAQ’s report (Fred Devos, Christophe Le Maillot) are highly reputed in the cave diving community. In short: Which number is correct / should we give in the article? Alfie ↑↓© 22:03, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Both? (with explanation) · · · Peter Southwood ^(talk): 10:07, 11 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For context, GEO was the group that originally began exploring Ox Bel Ha, consisting of CINDAQ members Sam Meacham, Fred Devos, and Christophe Le Maillot, along with Bernd Birnbach, Steve Bogaerts, Bil Phillips, Daniel Riordan, and Sabine Schnittger. CINDAQ is the direct descendant of GEO, with its remaining active explorers continuing the work.

What you're really asking is whether to trust the numbers published by the original explorers or those reported by QRSS.

Despite its name, QRSS is not an authoritative source. It is a best-effort project by legendary explorer Jim Coke to collect survey data. Checking anything beyond that the data files exists is not in the scope of this project.

QRSS was not updated between 2022 and January 2025 for any cave system, likely because Jim wanted to hand the project over to someone else. It now includes the 2023 numbers from CINDAQ, which releases a single report each year summarizing all of its exploration activity from the previous year. However, it does not yet reflect 2024 data. Since none of the QRSS data is publicly accessible, both sets of numbers hold equal standing in that regard.

That said, this is not a reason to distrust the original explorers. All other data they have released has been factual and has never been disputed. Divercave (talk) 06:41, 27 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]