Talk:Paprika/Archive 1

Archive 1

comment 0

Looking at reference 11 and 12, it seems to me conclusive that reference 11 is wrong and the first usage of paprika is 1831?

Comment 1

Why all the focus on Hungary? We eat this stuff all over the world. I never even knew Hungarians ate it. This article is way too Hungary-centric. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.228.113.159 (talk) 04:49, 10 September 2016 (UTC)

The sweet variant of the capsicum originates there, as the text (now) explains. And indeed at least here in the NL paprika is historically associated with Hungary, as Central European seasonal workers in the 18th and 19th century brought it to the NL. 77.171.247.220 (talk) 15:15, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Comment 2 (Cultivar name)

There should at least be a mention of the term "bell pepper" here...that is what paprikas are called in English-speaking North America. Currently, bell pepper leads directly to the capsicum page.

Maybe a disambiguation page is in order?

But.. is it bell peppers, or another cultivar? Check the Kalocsa area, with the most famous paprika cultivation (doi 10.17660/ActaHortic.2000.536.47) and there you will find no bell peppers! Their cultivar "longum" is not a "bell", and it is widely distributed From Hungary, to Ukraine, to Kazakhstan.. (http://www.agroatlas.ru/en/content/cultural/Capsicum_annum_longum_K/index.html ) The longum set contains also the cayenne. Please check before deleting!

Comment 3

Hey, could anyone explain what a "TV paprika" is.

In Hungary, a "TV paprika" is a variety that looks like the yellow ones in this picture: [1]. They're generally not hot. I don't know why it's named like that. --Sander Pronk 21:18, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

TV means tölteni való, i.e., "suitable to be filled/stuffed", meant for the dish töltött paprika (stuffed paprika). Of course, it can be eaten without cooking as well, with bread and butter etc. Adam78 20:50, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

If it comes from south america, its strange that there is a "indo-european" root word in slavic languages. Isn't more likely that paprika comes from piri-piri via portuguese plus the slavic diminutive particle -ka?

It’s cognate with “pepper.” The article should be changed to reflect this. A merge with bell pepper seems in order, too. -Ahruman 10:49, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

This article is redundant and misleading. It is written as if paprika is another name for bell pepper or chili. In fact, that is a usage found in very few places. Its most common usage, most widely used is specific to a powder made from a red pepper. Tmangray 15:19, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I've only cooked in the US and Sweden. In Sweden bell peppers are called Paprika. Same thing with Norway and the Netherlands (according to their wikipedias). So while you may be right in that the article is a bit misleading, I'm pretty sure it's not "a usage found in very few places." Bufflo 19:09, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree that this article is misleading - as far as I know, most non-english speaking countries call "bell peppers" paprika instead. This should be merged with Bell pepper --Stijndon 08:33, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

In English, "paprika" is not synonymous with "bell pepper." In fact, I'm not aware of "paprika" ever meaning "bell pepper," in an English context. In English, "paprika" normally refers only to the dried form of sweet or mild capsicum peppers (and, rarely, hot peppers), not bell peppers. Bell peppers have no capsaicin in them, and so are not normally used as a spice. Sweet peppers, not bells, provide "sweet paprika." For the English Language section of Wikipedia, the meaning of "paprika" in any other language is moot. Non-English usages should be discussed with regard to the etymology, but should not dicatate the overall content of the article. As such, a merge would not be in order. Some editing to properly reflect English language usage would, however, be in order. -GSwift 04:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

That isn't true though. I've checked a dictionary, and it confirms that paprika can mean {sweet|green|bell} pepper or paprikapowder. Perhaps your use of the word paprika is an idiosyncrasy of your particular dialect group.

Currently we have two articles that, according to bell pepper and paprika describe the same thing. Worse, a lot of the information is currently located at the article bell pepper, a name which, according to that article itself, is particular to US vernacular. The images at the bell pepper article, showing the cut-open fruit, and the assorted colours, clearly depict paprikas.

I would also like to remind you that an encyclopaedia primarily descibes topics. Assigning a page a name that has a different meaning in different dialiects is a very bad idea. It should be very clear what an article is about, and what it isn't about. At least in that, the bell pepper article is clear: capsicum annuum. I will start fixing what's broken by moving some interwikis to correct locations. Shinobu 18:31, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the general concept. I believe the article should start from the international commodity "Paprika powder", which is not made of bell peppers as their producers say (see just below, my other comment). From there we should describe the plant used under the same name, along with its scientific (an absolutely "must", so we all agree what we are talking about). All other naming should be included as "other naming" or similar, so that the reader will have a clear view of the confusing namings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.210.177.93 (talk) 21:16, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

In hungarian, paprika means bell pepper, or the hungarian variety. Pirospaprika (red paprika) and fűszerpaprika (spice paprika) means the spice. Frigo 07:05, 7 July 2007 (UTC)

No. It may be used in the streets, but their scientists and the most famous of their producers say differently. See https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284342894_APPLIED_SPICE_PAPRIKA_CAPSICUM_ANNUUM_L_VAR_LONGUM_GROWING_TECHNOLOGIES_AND_PROCESSING_IN_HUNGARY, or http://www.actahort.org/books/536/536_47.htm . Also take a look at the article's picture "paprika vendor". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.210.177.93 (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

A few minor notes - Hungarian is not "slavic" or "indo-european". hungarian is a Finno-Ugric Ural-Altaian language with no relations to either.

In general Hungarian, paprika is any and all peppers, but often preceded by the use or variety, just as it is in English.

65.79.160.209 (talk) 15:31, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Nomenclature

Why is there "paperka" as the Hungarian name in the article? In Hungarian it is also called Paprika. --193.16.218.66 14:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Because the original author didn't speak Hungarian? Can you provide a dictionnary reference? And is this about the powder or about capsicum annuum? Or both? Shinobu 09:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyvio?

Did WP borrow from [2], or other way round? --84.133.166.239 22:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree on the fact that this document it's misleading. In many European languages the word paprika exist in their own languages meaning the vegetable from the group Capsicum annuum, that's why they don't mind translating the word to english and some dictionaries have embraced this outside word like their own. But if we look at [3], where they cite 3 different sources, none of the refer paprika as the vegetable, the closest one says that paprika it's the plant itself and not the fruit of the plant. This article should be re-written to avoid any confusion and misleadings.

Powder or not

20 years ago I never heard anyone call red bell peppers "paprika". That word only seemed to cover the powder. It appears to me the word has changed it's meaning over time - at least here in Denmark. If so, I think the article should explain this confusion. I could be entirely mistaken though. JoaCHIP (talk) 19:29, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Request

an article request was made for the following:*Pimenton - please clarify the difference between pimenton, pimento, red pepper. I have moved it here where someone might expand the article to encompass this point photodude (talk) 10:51, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

This isn't what I was looking for.

Well, I kinda had a feeling that this was going to be the info that I'd get, but it's not even close to what I was wanting.

There is an anime movie called "Paprika." I was hoping that there was an article about the movie here, but I guess not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Washougal Otaku (talk • contribs) 22:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Try the imdb: Paprika. 210.4.224.172 (talk) 00:04, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

about health benefits

paprika is also high in beta-carotene. i think that should be added. i can't locate an article, but beta-carotene is available in higher concentrations in redder paprika, meaning green paprika < yellow < orange < red. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.123.155.176 (talk) 10:25, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I believe Paprika comes from "prik"

I am a chef that worked in many different continents, traveled all around and studied for many years food, culture and languages. I don't hold a Ph.D, and I am self taught. Because my origins in South America, I was always intrigued on the way the New World changed the food habits of the entire human population. Anybody that studied about food history would laugh about categorize food by nation of origin. Anyway, the look for the origins is embebbed in our "I don't know where I go, so at least I want to know where I can from" culture. Thoughts apart, I read from many sources (books, not internet), that the paprika arrives to Hungary from Asia. Turk traders brought it from India and China? In Thailand the grounded chiles are called Prik. Without being a liguistic pro, I can see that there is a strong possibility that both words are connected. I never heard this before. It just happened to see the natural connection. I might be wrong. It doesn't really matter. Let me know what you think —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.11.112.189 (talk) 20:25, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Nice idea, but the etymology of Paprika is pretty sound. It's not that unusual that two words in different languages might sound similar and have similar meanings. See false cognate. --86.138.30.7 (talk) 20:55, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

No, you are not wrong about the area. The geographic distribution of the annuum cultivar used for the spice is exactly the one you suggest. But the earliest record of the name is among Greek texts, some centuries BCE.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.210.177.93 (talk) 07:55, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

what is a sub for paprika —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.76.143.52 (talk) 00:11, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

"Hindu legends" about a New World plant must be young

If a "Hindu legend" mentions Paprika, it is either a young legend (Paprika is a Capsicum plant, which is native to the New World), or evidence of pre-Columbian contact between the Americas and India. The supporting reference is a dead link, and not available from www.archive.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.190.10 (talk) 01:28, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree. The stuff about Hindu Legend is vandalism by 128.250.5.246, the original entry as of 03:35, 6 April 2009 reads: "The term Paprika is rumoured to have been named in India after a religious figure ..." The bogus reference was then added in order to escape tagging by a bot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Daniel Kellis (talk • contribs)

Removed bogus reference ( "Spices For Life" Paprika's Health Benefits http://spicesforlife.wordpress.com/2011/07/30/paprikas-health-benefits/ ) and claim ( In India, it is believed that Paprika was named after the Hindu figure Rysh Paprike). Please watch out for recreation of this vandalism. EaswarH 03:35, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

"Hindu" Urban Legend sock puppet strikes again. (1.124.170.161 this time) IP addresses give away your real location. Better not to use them. I have put this on my watch list. Daniel Kellis (talk) 00:35, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Smoked paprika?

Why no mention of smoked paprika? Dmforcier (talk) 01:33, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Plant vs Fruit

I have a package of Burpee All Alarm Hot Pepper Mix ( UPC 0-41530-65016-7) that I'm growing. It would be very useful if this article would have more information regarding the Hungarian Wax plant itself and not just the fruit.
Christopher, Salem, OR (talk) 05:58, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Etymology

The current text states that the latin-slavic route is an "alternative claim" beside the claim that the word paprika comes from Hungarian.

The fact is that this is no alternative claim. Bell peppers - obviously - aren't indigenous to Hungary. They came from America, and were in turn introduced into Hungary by Turkish gardeners. The original Hungarian name for paprika was török bors, which means turkish pepper.

The Hungarian word paprika does in fact come from the latin word piper. In fact, the Hungarian language has actually borrowed the -ka diminutive itself from slavic languages, so even a non-slavic route for this word is possible. Could someone look up a Hungarian etymological dictionary? I don't have any on my hands. 86.101.216.102 (talk) 14:38, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

That's mostly accurate, except that "Turkish" gardeners in Hungary were actually mostly ethnically Bulgarian -- "Turkish" referred to anything form the Ottoman Empire. There's a significant number of gardening and animal name borrowings in Hungarian from Bulgarian dating from then, although some are from much before that, from the Bulgarian-Hungarian wars -- for example the word for dove in Hungarian was borrowed form Bulgarian when the second vowel was still nasal.

If I recally correctly, the name for some or all plants of the Capsicum genus is in some languages are derived from piper because Columbus wanted to convince his funders that he had achieved his aim of getting easier access to the Indian piper spices, so he tried to pass off the ground dried Capsicum for ground piper. In modern literary Bulgarian piper refers to only (East) Indian piper itself, and American (West Indian) Capsicum is chushka (a native coinage, derived from the word for pod in the sense of legume) (well that's the name for the fruit of the plant, the plant itself IS piper -- but that's a technical botanical term; although in many (most, or at least of the areas Bulgarian gardeners who emigrated come from?) dialects piperka IS used for chushka). ANd while fact-checking for this comment I found out bell peppers are caller Bulgarian Piper in Russian, hah.:

P.S. Although, confusingly enough, cherven piper, red piper, refers to ground red Capsicum of any species, with Scoville unit amounts from zero to oh my god it's burning. Black, white and green piper all refer to actual East Indian piper in various stages of ripeness or dryness.

The Oxford English Dictionary states that the word 'paprika' in English dates from 1898. This is a more authoritative source than the online dictionary currently cited (which claims the date as 1896). I will amend but wait a while in case anyone has any comments.Varnebank (talk) 09:03, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Well, whatever, in Poland we call it always as „papryka” (for the vegetable and for the spice that was made of it) and only quite recently I discovered that in english it is „bell pepper” and NOT „paprika”, which I find very weird for me, because in PL „pepper” is „pieprz” and that refers always to the wide range of different kinds of spices (but usualy to the most common one - black ground pepper). No one would confuse the word „papryka” with „pieprz”, because the first is (mainly) a vegetable and the latter is spice. 79.162.203.57 (talk) 11:34, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Jakub And this picture even adds to the flavour: https://i.ibb.co/fvWFgJV/Bez-tytu-u.gif Two different words in Polish, one in English. How confusing your lives must be out there. 79.162.203.57 (talk) 11:41, 17 December 2020 (UTC)Jakub

This is English Wikipedia. There's no harm in discussing the roots of the term here, but contemporary definitions from foreign languages do not trump english definitions.

In english, paprika is any of several varieties of capsicum annuum; "bell pepper" is any of several other varieties. Paprika is normally sold dried and ground. However, olives stuffed with paprika are stuffed with the fresh fruit. Bell peppers are never dried and ground.

~ There seems to be confusion over hot/sweet paprika, and smoked/unsmoked paprika. Hot paprika is hot like a mild chili; sweet paprika is not hot at all, but it does have a characteristic flavour (i.e. it's not just food-colouring).

In my experience, smoked paprika has always been hot. But I have no reason to suppose that smoked paprika must be hot.

I know nothing of Polish, Serbian or Croatian. But I'm sure that usage in those languages has no bearing on the way the word is used today, in English.

MrDemeanour (talk) 02:36, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Quality

The article claims the "highest quality" paprika comes from Spain, while "cheaper" paprika comes from Hungary. No citation is given for the former. By what measure is it of highest quality? The use of "cheaper" is ambiguous. Does it mean inferior, lower priced, or both? What makes Spanish paprika of "the highest quality" and Hungarian paprika "cheaper"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doranb (talk • contribs) 04:53, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

cutting from my talk .

it is a discussion. wjat is your problem with me telling you about my knowlegde of this spice? You removed my comments from TALK. Not from the actual page. You don't own the page. Very sad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.71.8.38 (talk) 08:53, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

Paprika flavour

In Ontario Canada, it is tasteless. It adds red colour. Someone removed my comments from this talk page, and I don't understand why. I am just trying to help and add information. It is sad that some people on Wikipedia have the power to silence thought and ideas. I am not a registered user, but I try to help out. Here are my four tildes. 68.71.8.38 (talk) 09:04, 26 July 2012 (UTC)

can "paprika" mean "bell pepper"?

Greetings! Over on Wiktionary, we've been trying to work out whether there is any variety of English that uses the word "paprika" to refer to the fruit, rather than the spice. We have some reason to think the word may be used this way in Irish English. If any of you are familiar with such usage (I'm thinking of something along the lines of "buy two paprikas and an apple while you're at the store"), we'd like your input at wikt:Talk:paprika or wikt:WT:RFV#paprika. (I see the note in this article's lead that the term isn't used this way in standard English.) -sche (talk) 17:51, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

While in the streets it might be used sometimes as a substitute for the "bell peppers", it is actually the "longum" variety, more close to the cayenne. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.210.177.93 (talk) 22:00, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Here in the NL, Paprika is the fruit. The spice is paprika-poeder (Paprika-powder). The spice however has hot tinges, while the fruit generally doesn't. 77.171.247.220 (talk) 17:42, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Contradiction first sentence

It refers to bell pepper and chili pepper being fruits of capsicum anuum. There are 2 odd things with this:

1: Bell pepper is a type of chili pepper. So Bell pepper is redundant.

2: chili pepper refers to all capsicum fruits, not only capsicum anuum.

So it would be technically more correct to say paprika is made from ground and dried chili peppers.

Or is it just dried, since they can be sold whole too?130.37.57.192 (talk) 12:26, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

I have always tought of paprika as a Hungarian word and I can't tell anything about the origin of the word. The only thing I know that is not right in the main text is that papar means pepper (Piper nigrum) in Serbian or Serbo-Croatian. Serbian name for pepper (Piper nigrum) is biber and they never use word papar. Word papar is used only in Croatia and in Croatian language exclusively. That is why I had to correct it in the main text. Peregrin Falcon (talk) 14:59, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

What we are talking hee is about the origin of the word. It doesn´t matter how peper is called nowadays in Serbia or Croatia, but what was called back then. The statement about the Serbian origin of the word is backed by "Wolfgang Pfeifer, Etymologisches Woerterbuch, 2003, p. 968–969; s.v. papar". By now we have a source for it, and you need to find sources for your claims, not just WP:OR. Regards. FkpCascais (talk) 16:59, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Exactly. Being a native speaker does not make you an instant expert on your language and its history, let alone etymology. This particularly because standardisation and language politics introduced a lot of confusion, especially with nationalism from the 19th century. The separation between Serbian and Croatian in particular involved frequent choices between synonyms. In Serbo-Croatian, both pipar (which is inherited from Proto-Slavic) and biber (a loanword from Turkish) are correct, and probably not specific to any particular region. Even today, I doubt that Croatians never use biber and Serbians absolutely never use pipar. --Florian Blaschke (talk) 23:23, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

Spice paprika - Colorau, in Brazil is made from annatto seeds dried and ground to fine powder. Some people are allergic to annatto and should be aware of this fact.

Spice paprika - Colorau, in Brazil is made from annatto seeds dried and ground to fine powder. Some people are allergic to annatto and should be aware of this fact and to be more cautious when eating paprika made from Brazil. Sited source - reference page

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-42254206/stock-photo-spice-paprika-colorau-in-brazil-is-made-from-annatto-seeds-dried-and-ground-to-fine-powder.html

References

Why the quotes around McCormick paprika?

This sentence: 'As of September 15, 2016, McCormick's "paprika" used peppers grown in the United States and its "smoked paprika" was imported from Spain,' has quote marks around the words paprika and smoked paprika. Is this suggesting that McCormick paprika is not really paprika? There needs to be an explanation as to why McCormick paprika isn't considered real paprika by the author, and why the author felt the need to put those words in quotes. If there is some anti-McCormick agenda or something, it ought to be explained. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:141:201:4E30:C54F:A6:E709:8266 (talk) 14:05, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

There is no secret agenda. The quotes serve to distinguish the 2 brands of paprika, either regular or smoked. Those are just the names given by the company to the spices, hence the quotes. The 1st quotes can be removed, however... --Bod (talk) 22:51, 17 October 2016 (UTC)

Isn't the definition wrong?

The lead sentence says: ..."is a ground spice made from red air-dried fruits of the larger and sweeter varieties of the plant Capsicum annuum,[3] called bell pepper or sweet pepper."

Air dried. Sadly, that's what I just bought. Yet googling it's uses, I find the foodie recipes seem to prefer it smoked. As do Spain etc. Indeed, the article; with four "smoke" uses, including a photo, have it smoked, one of them explicitly explains: smoke dried. —Cheers!
--2602:306:CFCE:1EE0:E956:80C5:4E0A:EA12 (talk) 19:56, 23 January 2018 (UTC)Doug Bashford

Species name

The plant's name is not tomato pepper, it is Capsicum Annuum L. Var. Longum (similar to the cayenne, not the bell), as the Hungarians say in the net. Protected by EU as a national cultivar. Also, the picture in the article showing a "paprika vendor" does not show bell peppers anywhere. (see also https://www.researchgate.net/publication/284342894_APPLIED_SPICE_PAPRIKA_CAPSICUM_ANNUUM_L_VAR_LONGUM_GROWING_TECHNOLOGIES_AND_PROCESSING_IN_HUNGARY and http://www.actahort.org/books/536/536_47.htm. The book, in InTechOpen.com, "Quality Management in Spice Paprika Production", https://www.intechopen.com/books/quality-management-systems-a-selective-presentation-of-case-studies-showcasing-its-evolution/quality-management-in-spice-paprika-production-from-cultivation-to-end-product, chapter 1.1. Spice paprika as a Hungaricum. See google search for the Kalocsa paprika, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.210.177.93 (talk) 20:31, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

First, new discussions go the bottom of the talk page; see WP:TALK. The sources you provide above are not rigorous, definitive reviews, as required for an encyclopedia. Two are more than 18 years old, and the intechopen source – a good reference – discusses C. annuum for Hungarian paprika, but Hungary is not the only region claiming its origin. Rather, "the peppers from which it is made are native to the New World and were later introduced to the Old World. Originating in central Mexico, paprika was brought to Spain in the 16th century" (in the lede). It is not clear what point you want to make. Further, your references are a mess -- please see WP:SCIRS for source quality, and freedictionary for how to put reference information in a template. --Zefr (talk) 23:34, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

"A mess" means it is confusing. But i only suggested one thing. The scientific name for the plant used as the main ingredient of the spice. One thing cannot be confusing, if on the same time others, contradictory, are not supplied. To repeat, what i say is, the article should be about the plant providing the main(or only) ingredient of the spice, otherwise, it should better use as a title the scientific name of the plant, as it does with all other "annuum", leaving the spice in a separate article, as it deserves. Then, about the existing article: It does not provide the scientific name of the species mainly used for the production of the, almost standard, commercial product named "paprika". While my proposal presents arguments for the single species used in this. On my arguments the objection is that some are more than 18 years old. Old-ness Is a new kind of falsehood? Are the "International Society for Horticultural Science", "Reasearchgate", the Hungarian cultivators and producers, not reliable sources, and are "gardeningknowhow" and "drgourmet", the sources today used in the article, a more rigorous, definitive, reliable one? (The referenced "freedictionary" only says "Paprika (the Hungarian name for red pepper)", which is not clear about the specific plant.) Also, the content of the photo used in the article, "paprika vendor", supports my proposal. Furthermore, the Westerners, who named it paprika, first they came to meet the spice and then the plant. In this way, the plant was named after the spice. So, i propose, in the first paragraph, it should make clear if it references the plant used in the spice, or the plant as presented in the various groceries around the globe, the later not being one single cultivar. Lastly, about the template to use, it is better being accurate, than providing inaccurate info in the right format. Of course all my above arguments can be wrong on the basis of other sources. Thank you for taking the time to write, with links and all.

Magyar

I suggest that we link from this page to the corresponding page in the Magyar language. How can we achieve this? I’m not sure about the correct syntax. Please enlighten me :) The URL is http://hu.wiki.x.io/wiki/F%C5%B1szerpaprika-%C5%91rlem%C3%A9ny

Giffengrabber (talk) 13:53, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

@Giffengrabber: I've linked the article to the corresponding Magyar article for you. In the sidebar on the left, just click on "add links" and choose the language. If there a corresponding article it will appear in the pop up box. Click on that and you're good. Coryphantha Talk 11:47, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you! Giffengrabber (talk) 22:37, 6 January 2021 (UTC)

@Giffengrabber: You're very welcome! :) Coryphantha Talk 19:30, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Archive 1