Talk:Northern Illinois University/Archive 1

Requests

This amount given for the endowment would make NIU one of the wealthiest universities in the USA. Not likely. Source it, correct it, or delete it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.243.4.2 (talk)

can somebody.....anybody....put up the typical school info thingy? I've tried before but couldnt do it right. I do believe a major college should have the same status in Wikipedia as schools a quarter its size.--—Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.156.230.79 (talk • contribs) 04:47, 6 October 2005

I hope to work on editing this over winter break...suggestions?--—Preceding unsigned comment added by Zapeta (talk • contribs) 07:13, 3 December 2005

Looks like a lot of progress has been made since the last comment was posted above. I spent some time today editing the "Notable Alumni", going off of the info on the Alumni Association website. I think this entry as a whole is starting to take shape nicely.--—Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.146.172.169 (talk • contribs) 00:32, 14 January 2006

Notable alumni- A warden??? We can't do better than this? This is a very questionable listing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.35.249 (talk) 01:02, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi, You might want to check on the school colors, they are listed as Red and Black. The TEAM colors of NIU are Red and Black, and most people (including staff and administrators at NIU) probably think that the school colors are the same. But, unless they changed them at some point in the last 30 years (quite possible), the SCHOOL colors of NIU are Yellow and White, as reflected on the seal. Just a little bit of trivia. Go Huskies!

Why doesn't anybody put some pictures up of campus? The lagoons, dorms, MLK Commons would all look nice on here.

• Remember to sign your comments please. Also, the school logo is awful and blurry, can somebody find a better version? Emax0 15:30, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Highlights Section

Ok, guys The highlights section's gotta go or be fixed up soon. It's pretty clear that somebody somewhere lifted that from some un-cited source - quoting from the article

"[...] based on our breadth of research and academic programs. Northern is among only four percent of all U.S. colleges and universities listed in Carnegie's most productive category [...]" (emphasis mine)

Mobius 06:38, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

The Trump quote seems out of place. The quote comes from a 2004 radio boradcast (more like a 90 second informercial) prodcued by Donald Trump in which he praised the Northern Illinois College of Business for offering a course that mimicked his Apprentice television show. The quote, while something of note for the university, probably doesn't belong in a highlights section.

--Davebenham 20:02, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

History

Need some history stuff in here. How old is the school? Where did it come from? Is someone trying to hide the past? Yes!

History wise, all I really know that is interesting is the fact that all of the Illiois state universities (NIU, ISU, EIU, WIU, and SIU) all have castles. The layout of these castles connect to each other and make some mega-castle.

That all Illinois universities have castles is true. That they share some floor plan is not.Unschool 05:50, 10 January 2007

Not true. The "castle buildings" are not at all of the State's Universities. Western Illinois University does not have an Altgeld Hall or a castle-like building that matches the rest. The State Universities that have these buildings are: NIU, ISU, EIU, SIU & UIUC. A link to John Peter Altgeld's wiki should probably be added. This section of his bio mentions the buildings that he influenced at the State Universities, however the article mentions nothing about the fact that the five of them are supposed to be capable of forming one large castle, if somehow they were all brought to one spot. I am aware of that rumor though and I know this myth does exist, but I have never seen or read any proof on the topic. http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/John_Peter_Altgeld#Views_and_Influences_on_Architecture

Also not true that the castles make a mega-castle. Perhaps the rumor got started because the architect for the DeKalb castle, Charles E. Brush, bid on the four Normal School jobs but apparently he lost the bids for the other three sites. The building at Illinois was designed by two professors in the school of architecture. The EIU project was started by a firm in Indianapolis but passed off to the firm that later designed the ISU castle before ending up in the hands of the architect from the SIU castle. http://www.eiu.edu/~localite/coles/charleston/eiu/oldmain/a_building_for_the_ages.htm

Neo Gothic:

           Charles Brush of Chicago in NIU in 1895 
           McPherson and Bowman of Indianapolis: EIU in 1895
           Miller and Fisher of Bloomigton IL: EIU in 1896, ISU in 1898.
           Charles Rapp of Chicago: SIU in 1896, EIU in 1898.

Romanesque:

           UIUC by Nathan Ricker and James White of Univ. of Illinois college of architecture in 1897.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.131.209.217 (talk) 01:35, 27 November 2007 (UTC) 

NIU won the 1963 AP College Division Football National Championship poll. http://wikicollegefootball.org/index.php/Northern_Illinois

Someone was looking for a site about NIU's first bowl game. It was in 1946 in Evansville, IN. NIU Bowl Appearances - Turkey Bowl (1946), Refrigerator Bowl (1947), Mineral Water Bowl (1962), Mineral Water Bowl (1963), Mineral Water Bowl (1965), California Bowl (1983), Silicon Valley Football Classic (2004), and Poinsettia Bowl (2006). http://www.ncaawiki.com/index.php/Northern_Illinois

Recent page vandalism

See also: Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive184#Professor allegedly telling students to vandalize wikipedia

See also Jimbo's January 27 comments at top of Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Further on the Professor Tim Pierce situation

This article is sprotected, probably for another few days to let the Pierce matter be talked to exhaustion. -- 68.127.172.142 03:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Just thought I'd post this since its somewhat annoying that a staff member would ask students to vandalize wikipedia pages. Unfortunately, this can't be posted to the actual article as I'm only a newly registered user and the page has been protected.

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is not trusted by some individuals. For instance, Tim Pearce of Northern Illinois University asked his Communications 100 class – a required course in the curriculum and NIU – to vandalize Wikipedia articles. He asked students to vandalize first the NIU article at Wikipedia, later after the page was locked from edits because of the vandalism he told his students to pick an article and vandalize it. The purpose of the assignment was to test Wikipedia's anti-vandalism mechanisms. According to Mr. Pearce, Wikipedia is an untrustworthy source because it can be edited by individuals with no prerequisites or credentials. In many cases the articles were reverted quickly to their original form after being edited by the students.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Katratszi (talk • contribs) 02:27, January 21, 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the report, it seemed like an unusually large amount of vandalism for this page. Wikipedia is a voluntary effort, I doubt that he would have told his students to disrupt the Red Cross or another volunteer organization similarly wasting their time and resources. Opinions and point of view bias on wikipedia is a problem, but overt vandalism is usually swiftly reverted. --Dual Freq 03:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

If it can be proven that the professor in question really did ask his students to vandalize Wikipedia, then I suggest that the evidence be posted here, along with contact address for the professor's faculty dean, the president of the university, and the university's office for handling academic misconduct. Concerned Wikipedians can then send an e-mail or letter to the authorities of their choice to complain about the conduct of the professor. As a (former) academic myself, I'm appalled that an educator would encourage or require his students to commit an antisocial and possibly illegal act as coursework, and I expect that this professor's colleagues and superiors would see it the same way. —Psychonaut 03:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

It looks as if the person in question may be one "Pierce, James Timothy" - and he's not a prof, but a grad student [1]. --moof 06:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, the page sez "Instructor", so he might be "teaching staff". Whatever. -- 68.127.172.142 05:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Question: Where did that text come from? It's phrased as though it came out of a newspaper. 68.39.174.238 20:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, in any case, Jimbo sorted this thing out over the phone days ago. I guess Zoe stuck her neck out into a big "let's suppress this vandalism" effort and she is pretty sore now that she realizes that she was overruled by Jimbo. Oh well. Maybe next time she will ramp up more slowly in her efforts to go up against a 100 year old, accredited and endowed instituation of higher learning, no matter how much she disagrees with an instructor's notion of what constitutes a justifiable experiment. Aftrer all, education is the name of the game, right? -- 05:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Just in case it needs to be said: the Pierce thing is not notable and should not go into the article. NIU is 100 years old and a lot more important stuff has happened to it than this tempest in a teapot. -- 38.99.84.14 12:06, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Indeed. Mention of this incident within the NIU article would serve to toot Wikipedia's horn, so to speak, and as such, it does not belong in this article, which is about NIU, not Wikipedia. Unschool 22:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Off campus housing

Since that section doesn't directly relate to NIU (you don't have to be a student to live in any of those places), it should be entirely removed. DandyDan2007 22:44, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

I completely agree, especially the way it was written. It was little more than an advertisment for DeKalb area rentals. I have removed the entire section.A mcmurray 00:04, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

The Off campus section has been readded; I vote for its removal. Look ALL four-year universities have off campus housing; the argument that it's a "major part of NIU culture" just doesn't hold water, because it's not unique. I'm not saying that it was added by a realtor, but I wouldn't be surprised. Do we agree that it should be removed, permenently?HuskyHuskie 14:04, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't notice it, consensus seems to be go, I will remove it again, any edits that readd it should be treated as edit warring/vandalism since they are going against consensus.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 14:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

It was actually written by a student, namely myself. If you went to NIU, you would know that off-campus housing is a major part of NIU, and these areas are heavily populated almost entirely by students, including many undergraduates. Unlike other state schools, NIU doesn't have enough residence halls to house the majority of its students, and to neglect the thriving off-campus communities as not being important to NIU (which actually have their own bus lines financed by NIU students, Greek Houses partially financed by NIU students, etc.), is completely wrong. These areas are certainly part of the NIU community and are directly related as students pay to provide services to these areas. If you think it reads too much like an advertisement or whatever, fine, then fix up the wording. And, sorry but a couple people doesn't consitute a "consensus to remove" in my mind. 131.156.238.75 20:45, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I concur that off campus housing is a large part of student life at NIU. Especially now a days, as it has just completely ballooned from what it was even 10 years ago. I honestly don't see the harm in letting it stay, as it is informative and accurate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 204.146.172.169 (talk) 22:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC).

Every single state university in the state of Illinois lacks sufficient dorm space for the majority of its undergrads. Check around, that's just a fact. Check around, and you'll understand that there's simply nothing unique about this to NIU, and that this is simply not noteworthy. I appreciate that you are knowledgeable and have written an accurate bit of info, but it's simply not noteworthy. You might as well have a section describing the instructional buildings and talking about the classrooms. 68.154.213.124 23:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

And if I didn't make this clear, not only do the other state schools lack sufficient dorm space for their students, they too are surrounded by gazillions of apartment complexes populated exclusively by students. This just is not unique, and it shouldn't be in the NIU article. You might, however, want to place it in the article on DeKalb. 68.154.213.124 23:26, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe every state school in Illinois lacks sufficient dorm space, and no school has the lack of dorm space that NIU has. NIU only has dorm space for about a third of its student population...I don't think any other school has such a defecit. Ever been to Western Illinois University and see the amount of towers they have, despite its lower population of students? My other point is that NIU is unique in that general student fees pay for separate bus routes to these areas, pay for a portion of the Greek system, etc. Additionally, this would seem out of place in the DeKalb article since it relates more directly to the NIU community, rather than to the DeKalb community, since the neighborhoods/apartment complexes I mentioned are primarily populated by students who are more connected to the NIU community than to DeKalb. I'm the one who made this article go from a list of highlights and alumni to an article with actual substance about the NIU community. And if you want to write about the academic buildings, that would be greatly appreciated. I'd really appreciate it if this article was expanded and tweaked rather than have its sections outright deleted. 131.156.238.75 01:08, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Off campus housing has nothing to do with NIU, individual land owners rent to the college kids for a profit. So in a way, it would be the same as promoting a business. There should be a mention in the article that states something "due to insufficient housing on campus, most students live off campus".--Kranar drogin 01:31, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Clearly non notable. The anon user above isn't the only one who goes to NIU.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 01:40, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Non notable according to who? You? I'm sorry, but the massive University Plaza is just as large and important to NIU as the towers are. Eco Park and Greek Row are just as important as the residence halls and even have their own separate bus routes, financed by NIU students.

Also, this is in no way advertising, but simply a mentioning of the neighborhoods around campus. Wherever was Horizon Properties or Mason Properties or anything like that mentioned? Nowhere! What was mentioned were neighborhoods, street names, and the names of a few apartment complexes which serve as reference points more than anything. Is it really that bad to have a paragraph or two on off-campus housing? If you want to take out the names of specific apartment complexes, then fine. But it seems highly inappropriate to me to remove the section altogether. 131.156.238.75 03:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes it is. You are advertising for them. The Wikipedia is not the yellow pages and Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information. What you want to include fall into both of those categories. Again, you should approach this as I have already stated. You need to write this article as though people are trying to learn about NIU, and that most people are not from the college.--Kranar drogin 03:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

In addition I would also say that any of that information could be found through the NIU website (which is in fact, prominently linked in the infobox). As Kranar said Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a yellow pages. Would you expect an article in an encyclopedia written about London to have information about bus routes or apartment complexes. Probably not.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 03:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Did you people even read what I wrote? Apparently not. Can you find information about NEIGHBORHOODS in the Yellow Pages? NO! Neverthless, I said you can remove the names of the apartment complexes if it bothers you so much! Also, is a listing of stores in a shopping center article on Wikipedia advertising too?!?! And the U of I article has an entire section about mass transit. Subtlely adding a few references to the largest student-operated bus system in the United States in a section about the neighborhoods it serves shouldn't be a problem then. And you're comparing apples and oranges, talking about a world city of over a million people (London) compared to a university, which is much more specific and should thus have more specific information about the community, as I'm sure articles about specific neighborhoods in a city would have.

Why don't you people try expanding the article, which it is in dire need of, instead of outright deleting sections? 131.156.238.75 05:48, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't go crazy. I disagree that articles about malls and the like should contain lists of stores, I think that screams of spam and advertising. Student operated? Perhaps funded. Then again, you would need a reliable source for that. As far as the neighborhoods thing, I would hardly call University Plaza a neighborhood, in addition students can live anywhere in the city, not just the neighborhoods being pushed here, thus the neighborhoods really have nothing to do with the university. The university doesn't operate nor own most of the places mentioned, therefore it doesn't belong on this page, because this article is about Northern Illinois University, if you want to start an article called Neighborhoods of DeKalb, Illinois go ahead, it just doesn't belong in this article.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 06:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Fact is, most of the information you want to include was not about neighborhoods, save Greek Row, it was about apartment complexes.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 06:33, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Right now consensus is against you. Produce some reliable sources that back up the claims, some of them do require citation if they would have any chance of being accepted. Go from there, it is possible that a short, well cited and reliable section can eventually be included, we are not opposed to change if the facts so warrant it.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 06:35, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

But citations alone will not be enough. This information has to be deemed noteworthy enough to be included. As written earlier, the section could have been fully documented and it still wouldn't have met my standard for sufficient importance to include. HuskyHuskie 07:05, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Well if you can't include stores, what the hell is a shopping center article supposed to talk about then? Just that it's a collection of "fill in amount" stores built in "year" located "here"? And yet fail to include what actually makes up said shopping center?

Also, why should we promote the government of Illinois by only mentioning government-sponsored housing and failing to include the existing alternatives. Isn't Wikipedia supposed to have balance between public and private sectors? I believe so.

Judging by your current standard, a city article should only make reference to the city government, city services, and things provided by said city, and make no reference whatsoever to the city's economy, neighborhoods, or culture. Denying something important to NIU, its community, in its article is outright ridiculous.

Also, just to let you know, I live in the dorms and have no interests whatsover in the off-campus housing developments. As I said before, if you want to remove the names of the apartment complexes, than fine, but a simple paragraph on the off-campus areas which are tied heavily to NIU geographically, culturally, and economically (rows of apartment complexes along Lincoln Highway, apartments and townhomes of Echo Park and areas along Twombly Road, Greek Row, and apartments along Lucinda, Annie Glidden, Blackhawk, Ridge, and Normal, etc.) should be fine. I understand if you want to take out the names of the apartment complexes, but I think it's important to incorporate the geography of the student neighborhoods into the NIU article. Keep in mind, NIU would be nothing what it is without these thriving areas of off-campus housing, which are just as prevalent, if not more prevalent than the residence halls, and that's why we need to at least make mention of that fact. 131.156.238.75 07:23, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, prior to coming to NIU, I think it would have been nice to know that half the freshmen move off-campus their sophomore year, what that big-ass white building with lots of windows was (University Plaza), and that such a large area of off-campus housing existed. It would have been nice to know of the large "Greek Row" community and its location. I'm sure other prospective students and their parents, as well as visitors and people unfamiliar with the university, would like to know as well, as these areas are important to NIU and are part of its general community. 131.156.238.75 07:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

This is an encyclopedia, as it was, that section couldn't wash. It read like an ad, and that kind of material will and should always be deleted on sight. Present your case for its notability other than because you say so. See WP:A WP:OR WP:V WP:CITE.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 07:42, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break

Well, in case you haven't realized, I said you can remove the names of specific apartment buildings. As for verifiability, one only needs look at a map or see with the naked eye that such off campus areas exist, and that they are closest to campus, and are served by their own routes on the NIU student-funded Huskie Line. Also, present your case for notability other than you say so? Um, I believe that's already been presented. You do the math with the number of dorm rooms provided and the number of off campus student housing provided. Look at a map on NIU's website of the bus routes, which clearly serve separate off-campus student housing areas close to campus. Also, keep in mind, these routes are funded by all NIU students. Again, one can verify this by looking at NIU's website. Outside sources verifying the location of specific Greek Houses are hard to find, yet these houses exist in a common area, and can be verified by one visiting its general geographical location. 131.156.238.75 08:01, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The bus people may merit a mention. But you are asserting notability for specific off campus area (which all of DeKalb not on campus qualifies as off campus). You have noted the cultural importance to NIU, thus saying that even though these areas are not directly affiliated with Northern Illinois University that they have a place on the page. This is of course your subjective opinion which goes against consensus here. If you want your opinion, which is what it is without reliable sources to back it up, to be taken seriously you are going to have to do what I said in the previous statement. Present your case for notability with a reasoning other than because you say so, and look at a map, don't insult my intelligence, I am aware of the geographic proximity to NIU of the areas you speak of. See WP:V, WP:A, WP:CITE, WP:OR. A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 08:18, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

You are also trying to change the subject. The Greek Houses and the bus routes isn't what is being discussed.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 08:21, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

The buses route doesn't assert the notability. Neither does your insistence. The buses go to Wal Mart too, so what? See above comment.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 08:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

What did I say before? More than half of the student population lives in areas outside the residence halls. That is notable in itself. Ask the RHA how many students live in the dorms if you don't believe me. A good portion of students live just outside campus in the aforementioned apartment complexes and nieghborhoods. Additionally, certain areas on campus are directly related to NIU, as student fees paid by all the students go towards the funding of the Greek community as well as separate bus lines which serve these neighborhoods. There is a reason why there are two bus lines serving areas just north of campus...because they are filled with students who go to NIU! There is also a reason why the only other bus lines serve predominantly commerical areas in DeKalb and not residential areas...because most students don't live outside the student neighborhoods. I am just using the bus line example and the Greek Row funding example of how these areas are directly affiliated with NIU.

As far as notability, we are talking a paragraph here. Not an article. All place articles make mention or should make mention of what specific things make up that place. That is logic. For NIU, the balance of residence halls and off-campus student housing is what makes up the residential community of NIU. 131.156.238.75 09:20, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Then producing the required sources should be no problem. This article has enough info that needs to be cited as is. The bus line funding and Greek row prove nothing about all the other apartment complexes and areas they simply prove that those items, the Huskie Buses and the Frats and such should be put in the article under appropriate section. It is a distraction from the issue at hand, at best. You have to understand that your assertion of what is inherently "logic" hold no water with most readers, say a reader from Spain or Mongolia, or Great Britain. This is why you must produce reliable sources instead of just your constant insistence, which I have yet to say I don't believe. There are simply certain criteria that must be adhered to for an encyclopedia article.A mcmurray (talk • contribs) 09:27, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

What you need to do is look at some universities that have been well written. Purdue University has a "B" rating, but I am sure you can find others.--Kranar drogin 12:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

No, the mention of the Huskie Bus lines which serve the area and the Greek community are supporting statements in why these neighborhoods are connected to NIU, are notable to NIU, and are important to NIU. That's what the central issue is (was) about...why these neighborhoods are important and notable to NIU...they predominantly house students that go to NIU and NIU funding pays to provide certain services to these areas!! YOU are the one who's distracting from the issue with the citation/verifiability thing which was never the main issue in the first place. Of course, we should try to cite things in Wikipedia when necessary. When talking about geographical areas and neighborhoods, it is often hard to cite, as they are generally understood by members of the community that certain areas are tied more to certain central places than others. And once again, if you want some proof that these nieghborhoods are more populated by NIU students and more tied to NIU than other neighborhoods in DeKalb, I use the multitude of NIU bus routes in this area as one example, which can be verified. Culturally and academically, these neighborhoods include the houses of Greek Row; the Greek system actually has its own executive position on the NIU Student Association which is funded by NIU students. So please read my words and understand that they are supporting arguments on why these neighborhoods are important to NIU and should be included in the article (the central issue here), rather than distractions. And let's not start with the cite this/verify this stuff until we actually have some modified sentences written down. Thank you. 131.156.238.75 19:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Look, 131, no one here doubts, I think, that these areas are primarily populated by students. Of course they are. What I and others are saying is that this is not notable in any way, because the same situation exists every where else, just about. I took on your challenge to the statement of the above anon, and found that, while EIU does have dorm space for the majority of its undergrads, and WIU may, barely (two of the WIU dorms' capacities were not listed on their websites, so it's not 100% certain), SIU and ISU do not. ISU has space for just about a third of its undergrads (7000 of 20000), and SIU-C is even worse off, with dorm space for less than 15% of its undergrads! (To say nothing of SIU-E, which of course, has no dorms at all, period.) I didn't check U of I, but given that it has one of the two largest Greek systems on the planet, it's unlikely to rely any heavier on dorm space than these others. The point is, NIU is not unique in this regard. Frankly, in my opinion you make us look stupid when you include this info, because it shows just how isolated you are from the rest of the world, and it makes all of us look bad. Go to SIU and ISU and even EIU (I'm guessing here, I've never visited there), and you will find that student apartments and Greek houses tend to be clustered together as well. Nice try, little buddy, but you sound like a primative who thinks that his own corner of the world is the center of the universe. Listen to the rest of us—your Huskie pals—and just drop it.HuskyHuskie 02:25, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't insult my intelligence. Remember assume good faith? Maybe if you people would be more clear in what you mean, I wouldn't have to keep repeating the same stuff. Of course, off campus housing isn't unique to NIU. Duh. You think I didn't know that. It's not my fault no one has written about the off-campus community near ISU or SIU's lack of dorms, which are notable and should be written. As colleges are all about community, it only makes sense that every college/university article should have a little blurb about its surrounding student communities, where the Greek houses are in relation to the university, what University amenities serve these areas, etc. But if you all want to live in your isolated holes of "Wikipedia college articles should only list this and that, and only anything owned by the government, and that's it" then that's your problem. I thought Wikipedia was about expanding knowledge on topics rather than hindering it. Sorry, my bad. I'll let you all get back to your outright deletion of sections and promoting your close-minded opinions about notability. 131.156.238.75 02:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

What does this have to do with good faith? If we disagree with your opinion on what constitutes notability, then we aren't showing good faith? You need to pop a Xanax and take a 24-hour Wikibreak, young man.

Don't forget, too, that despite your last statement about not claiming any uniqueness, that's exactly what you did do earlier in this discussion, claiming that the dearth of dorms created a housing situation unlike that at any other Illinois university.

Assuming you take that much needed Wikibreak, when you come back, if you're leaving this project behind, may I suggest you create a section in Chicago informing readers that "Chicago has streets", and that these streets are an integral part of Chicago culture. And don't forget to list them. You know, for the sake of "expanding knowledge on topics", as you say.HuskyHuskie 04:53, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

No, you passing judgements about my age and treating me like a child constitutes bad faith. Pop a xanax? Little buddy? Young man? Take a break? That is completely uncalled for and inappropriate. You don't know who I am, nor should you. How do you know I'm not a woman, or a 30 year old grad student who wields more power than you. But that doesn't matter, and you should treat others equally.

As far as the Chicago vs. NIU thing, you're comparing apples and oranges. This is an article about Northern Illinois University, a college campus of about 25,000 students. It is at a much smaller geographical scale than an article like Chicago, a world city of nearly 3 million people. However, I would expect an article on a specific Chicago neighborhood or a suburb to briefly discuss the neighborhoods which make up these communities, as many do. Do I expect a page-long document mentioning each street and building...no, of course not. But I do expect a simple paragraph stating that "Since the residence halls only provide housing for about a third of the students at NIU, large areas of off-campus hosuing in close proximity to the campus exist. There exists a large section of student housing north of campus, including townhomes, apartments, and the houses of "Greek Row", as well as the massive University Plaza, which offers dorm-style living. A secondary area of student housing exists in the form of apartment complexes along Lincoln Highway, south of campus. Both areas are heavily populated by students and are serviced by separate lines on the NIU student-funded Huskie Bus Line." That's all I'm asking for. And there's no reason why ISU, SIU, and other places shouldn't have similar sections. 131.156.238.75 06:48, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

You know, 131, you bring it on yourself. Sure, I'm having a bit of fun at your expense, because you need to learn to lighten up a bit. This isn't life or death, its Wikipedia. The Chicago vs. NIU thing was purposely ridiculous, but then, sometimes that's the point of an analogy, to use something patently absurd to demonstrate the silliness of something that somebody is taking too seriously. Do I know anything about your age or gender? Of course not. But I'm an old man who has spent my entire adult life engaged in education, most of it with young adults, and your profile is so classic I can't help but make assumptions. You're male, an undergrad, most likely still under 21. You're brighter than most of your classmates; major is most likely in CLAS, but not mathematics. You still believe that there is not only a difference between right and wrong, and you believe that that difference is important. That's not to say that you don't respect other cultures with different norms; far from it, you consider yourself to be less ethnocentristic than most people. Quality instructors enjoy having you in class, crappy instructors may think you have an attitude. You get drunk less than most of your fellow students, maybe not at all. On average, you mastur—well, I've probably said enough. I mean, I could be wrong, totally and completely. But since I was making assumptions, as you correctly pointed out, I thought I'd share them with you. And if you're totally pissed off right now, instead of smiling as I wish you were, then it proves my point that you are maybe just a bit, just a tad, on the immature side, and that you need to "chill" (is that word still being used that way? I can never keep up anymore). By the way, a sentence or two about the apartment situation, the bus routes, and the Greeks, is justifiable, in my opinion. You looked in your last edit like you were actually on to something, and then it got too fat again. Go ahead, give it a try. No one's biting, Little One. HuskyHuskie 08:37, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a social network or a discussion forum and I'm sure there are pages about those areas. Wikipedia is also not a place for psycho or social analysis of individual users. Some of us are serious about editing here and contributing to Wikipedia. As I see you registered only a month or so ago, you may or may not be aware of the rules of conduct and ettiqutte here. Let's stick to the task at hand, and avoid character assassinations, generalizations, stereotypes, and age discrimination. Maybe you need a refresher in Wikipedia:Civility. 131.156.238.75 09:26, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

A review of my edits to articles will show that I take them quite seriously. I am neither a vandal nor a provocateur. But this is a community, one that requires people to work together. You adopted a hostile tone to the arguments of others, which I felt was disproportionate, and I merely sought to illustrate that through a bit of ribbing. Your reply merely accents my points. HuskyHuskie 16:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, you were the one that pushed things too far by getting personal. Up until then, I was merely focusing on things relating to Wikipedia and this discussion. Did I ever pass judgements or make predictions about your character, your age, or things outside of Wikipedia. No. You were the only one who did. And once you did, I simply reminded you that there are some rules of etiquette to follow around here. And you egging me on constitutes taunt. Having strong opinions and being passionate about an argument in a discussion on a subject on Wikipedia does in no way give you the right to start making personal accusations and make ageist comments. 131.156.238.75 17:49, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

• I apologize.HuskyHuskie 19:11, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

External links

We shouldn't be adding external links in the body of the text, put them under an external links section. We don't need links to every single academic department. Those are easy enough to find with the one link to NIU. A mcmurray 06:14, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Suburban

While DeKalb County is technically within a division of the Chicago Metro area calling the city or the county "suburban" in the sense of a suburb of Chicago is absolutely laughable. IvoShandor 01:51, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

The little anon edit war needs to end now, or this page will be requested for protection. Discuss, don't just edit war. IvoShandor 18:17, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I think it is suburban, in the sense of a suburban-style setting. Go to Rivermist and tell me it doesn't remind you of sprawling Plainfield, take a drive up Normal Street and tell me it doesn't resemble Lombard, take a trip down Route 23 and say it isn't Randall Road-on-steroids. A place doesn't have to physically touch other suburbs to be a suburb or have suburban characteristics. Unincorporated DeKalb County, Malta, and Kingston may be rural, but DeKalb (a city of 40,000+) certainly isn't. It's either exurban, suburban, or urban. How in heck can a place with apartment buildings up the wazoo, 12-story structures, 4-lane highways, and nearly every major big-box store be considered "rural", a description associated with farms and small villages?? Abog 04:58, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

How is that not just urban? What makes it suburban? Most modern American communities all have the same characteristics you describe. Suburb would seem to imply that it is in a smaller satellite of Chicago, which isn't the case. I say just call it urban and be done with it. IvoShandor 03:34, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

As a native of the area, I certainly think of DeKalb as a "rural" town. There are probably universities that are literally set in the middle of corn field (certainly in Illinois we have built many, many high schools between the tassels), but to me the term "rural", when referring to the setting of DeKalb, is certainly acceptable. "Suburban" is laughable. My perception of suburban implies a continuity with the urban core. To me, when I am driving in the suburbs, one part of the experience is being unaware (without explicit knowledge) of when I am leaving Oak Park and entering River Forest, for example. And this is true in almost all directions. The suburbs are contiguous with the city. I would argue that Aurora was not a suburb 50 years ago, but it is today. DeKalb still is not, in my very humble opinion. So I vote for rural, and, if that is not to be, then I guess we can go with the fancy neologism "exoburb". HuskyHuskie 03:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I read what I wrote, and I'm not being very clear, I think. Let me put it this way: One of the choices for setting is "rural". Okay, if a university set in DeKalb, Illinois, does not qualify as "rural", then what does? Does it have to be in a cornfield, like Kaneland or Kishwaukee? I don't think that that is the intent. I don't know of any universities so-located. Some are on the fringes of towns, but surely that is not needed to qualify as "rural" (although NIU was certainly on the edge not so long ago). HuskyHuskie 04:00, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

I tried to find universities in a similarly-sized city within a similar range of proximity to a large metropolitan area as DeKalb is to Chicago. A lot of colleges I searched for didn't even have a label, it just had the acreage. One I did find was Hope College in Holland, Michigan (pop. 35,000), which was labeled "Suburban", I guess due to its proximity to Grand Rapids. Similarly, DeKalb is part of the Chicago metro and is not in the complete middle of nowhere ("rural"), as several colleges are (Greenville College and Blackburn College). However, I would hesitate to classify NIU as urban, since that term is usually applied to much larger cities with their own suburbs. In my opinion, DeKalb and Sycamore are suburbs of Chicago and heavily tied to the region, they're just a little bit more distant than the rest...that area will fill in with development about 20 years from now anyway. We could use the term "exurban", but it doesn't seem as popular or well-known, and just a branch of "suburban" if you ask me. But to call a fairly sizable town that's 60 or so miles from the third largest city in America either "rural" or "urban" seems inaccurate. Just my two cents. Abog 05:15, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

The only reason I am opposed to using suburban, which some anon just changed back to, (and I am not changing because I am not going to edit war over something this lame) is because it gives a false impression to the reader. Being in DeKalb feels nothing like being in the suburbs, not even close. IvoShandor 21:16, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

My point is, just because the place is "technically" suburban, doesn't mean the average reader interprets the technical meaning when reading the word suburban on this page. IvoShandor 21:19, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Can't we just leave off this word? I'll admit that there is a very technical justification for using "suburban", but really, most people from the area will just look at you strange if you describe DeKalb (both the town and the county) as "suburban". I prefer "small town", but someone said that DeKalb was too big to be a small town (but try explaining that to someone from the real suburbs, say, from Aurora or Naperville). So can we just delete this reference? HuskyHuskie (talk) 03:35, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Okay, no disagreement on this for over six weeks. It's done. HuskyHuskie (talk) 05:52, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

US News rankings

Controversial? Look, they're far from perfect. But they're the most widely recognized college rankings in the US—the closest thing that we have to a common standard. Hey, look at another example. If we were ranked #1 (or even in the top 10) of the BCS rankings, I think a lot of Huskies would be fighting to put that fact in to the intro summary. And the BCS rankings are truly controversial.

I think that we Huskies need to take pride in the fact that our school is recognized as a "National University" by USN. Few other schools in the state can say that. Both Eastern and Western are in some category that makes them seem just a step above a community college. Twenty-five years ago, we would have probably been in that category as well. This is a source of pride, it is a documented statement, and it belongs in the summary. The intro summary is supposed to give a general, overall view of the University. You know, an actor can do 30 crappy movies and have one brilliant performance which nets him the Oscar. There are many such actors out there. And I guarantee you that the fact that they are an "Academy Award winner" is in their intro summary, even though that statement is much less representative of their body of work than this USN ranking is representative of our school. HuskyHuskie (talk) 02:57, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Where are the actual numbers?? Where can the business school rankings be verified?

Check out this link from U.S. News & World Report, 2008 which ranks NIU as a Fourth Tier University!!!! [[2]]—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.189.35.249 (talk) 01:07, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

By no means do I believe that the current version of the introduction is to be regarded as inviolate. But if it is to be changed, I won't have us cowering and whimpering that we aren't ranked as high as we'd like to be. We can and will improve our standing, but it will only take longer if the administration is allowed to continue its attempts to sanitize this article. The US News rankings are known by everyone. When we delete them it only makes us look ashamed and, quite frankly, ignorant. We are a major national university. There are literally thousands of post-secondary institutions in the United States, and we are in the most prestigious category. There is no shame in that except that which we lend to it ourselves. Snap out of it, for Pete's sake. HuskyHuskie (talk) 09:07, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Unconfermed Shooting

their is an unconfermed shooting at the campus of NIU.Can someone who lives or studies near their comferim that? link to niu website about it http://www.niu.edu/alert/campus_alert.shtml Superworms (talk) 21:41, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

It's all over CNN now. So I don't think it's "unconfirmed" anymore. Dr. Cash (talk) 23:01, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

yea, this was back when it wasn't "confirmed"Superworms (talk) 21:06, 15 February 2008 (UTC)