Talk:Monero

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Block reward isn't completely fixed

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

I request changing | block_reward = XMR 0.6 to | block_reward = XMR 0.6 ≥

Because Monero has dynamic block size, which makes block reward is not always 0.6, sometimes it can be less.

More detailed explanation of dynamic block size: https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/11283/can-someone-help-me-understand-the-dynamic-block-size-in-monero Throat0390 (talk) 01:00, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Could you find us a WP:RS that discusses this? In the case of cryptocurrency articles, it would be a book, a mainstream newspaper (fortune, wsj, bloomberg, etc), and cant be a contributor news piece, a blog, reddit, etc. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 02:32, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, here's my findings:

https://web.getmonero.org/library/Zero-to-Monero-2-0-0.pdf#subsection.7.3.3 (page 64, section 7.3.3)
https://masteringmonero.com/book/Mastering%20Monero%20First%20Edition%20by%20SerHack%20and%20Monero%20Community.pdf (page 139, section 5.5.3.2)
https://www.binance.com/en/research/analysis/monero-hard-fork (section 2.1)

First 2 sources may count as contributor sources however its also possible to verify this fact using a blockchain explorer, for an example:

Block 3102996 has 0.599978 XMR block reward while block 3154914 is exactly 0.6 XMR

Another example from 2017:

Block 1355956 has 6.756 XMR while one block earlier has 6.967 XMR - 0.211 XMR less than full reward because of dynamic block size and penalty system.

Throat0390 (talk) 00:15, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done by myself Throat0390 (talk) 21:46, 5 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

None of the sources you provided are WP:RS on cryptocurrency articles. We are only using mainstream sources, such as wsj, nyt, bloomberg, etc. Crypo-zines, binance, etc are not RS. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 06:01, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

~~Hi, there's no way (or near to no way) to WSJ, NYT and Bloomberg would publish article about Monero has dynamic block size algorithm. Please be realistic.~~

I also provided sources from a blockchain explorer that everybody can verify it. You can also use different blockchain explorer service or use your own.

Edit: Just saw @Matthew.kowal added source from Yahoo Finance, it mentions about dynamic block size but it doesn't explain how it exactly works, I think we can include both primary and secondary source. (Like the book added before.) Throat0390 (talk) 13:04, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please stick to reliable sources, which in this case will also be independent sources. Use reliable, independent sources to determine what needs to be explained. It is okay to leave out parts which are not mentioned by reliable sources, even if they seem obviously important to you based on your experiences or opinions.

This is a general audience encyclopedia, and over-relying on primary sources to provide technical details is unlikely to help readers get a better understanding of the larger topic.

Also note that Yahoo! and MSN often republish work from other outlets, including unreliable outlets. Being republished in this way doesn't make a source any more reliable. Grayfell (talk) 20:44, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is current source doesn't mention block rewards can be less than 0.6 but it mentions dynamic block size (which is about block reward).

How we can fix this issue? That's why I wanted to add this technical details in addition to the secondary source. Throat0390 (talk) 21:15, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Throat0390: I noticed above on this talk page that you implemented a change that you had also proposed. I think due to your COI you should probably wait for another editor to do that. Next, relating to this content in question, we can simply remove it. We dont need to have everything about Monero on this article. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 23:37, 11 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Block reward is one of the important property of cryptocurrencies, I think we shouldn't remove it. Also I noticed other cryptocurrency pages doesn't include citation, is that problem? Throat0390 (talk) 01:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Its non-controversial content. I was just noting you probably should wait for others. Not a big deal on that edit in question about block reward. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 08:10, 19 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extend Kraken's delist

This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest has now been answered.

[1] Throat0390 (talk) 02:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neither Reddit nor Cointelegraph are reliable sources. Grayfell (talk) 08:01, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, I already included better resource needed template, all the information is verifiable from Kraken's official website however they didn't include information about when they delisted.

If current proposed changes are not OK I can rewrite without dates included. In this case only Kraken would be used as source.

What do you think? Throat0390 (talk) 13:09, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please stick to reliable, independent sources. If something is not explained by reliable sources, it may not even belong in the article at all. Grayfell (talk) 20:39, 10 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Mining

The following addition to the Mining section did not seem particularly relevant. It references a arbitrary point in time and over generalizes a specific yet anecdotal case. It also lacks any references. I have removed it, but would encourage more content regarding mining.

Mining is not very profitable at June 2024 prices. However, the consistency of the payouts for an XMR miner are clear. Examine the graphic, "Monero XMR Mining Profits", for an example of a five computer P2Pool cluster mining XMR with one of the machines hosting the full Monero blockchain and a mining pool daemon (P2Pool). These older consumer model systems are almost paying for their electrical needs in a quite predictable manner.

Matthew.kowal (talk) 05:19, 6 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Good call. The chart is visual spam, also. Any info on mining would, as always, require a reliable source. For this topic, that would also be an independent source. Grayfell (talk) 08:13, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

Added benefit of the publicity section

The newest entry in the publicity section is 4 years old, and I don't see an added benefit of attempting to include the occasional news article which is related to Monero. There are countless numbers of articles, opinions, and events regarding the currency which has existed for over a decade now and selectively covering a few of them seems impractical and irrelevant to the article's purpose of providing an nonspecific overview of Monero, as well as allowing the introduction of bias through selective inclusion of events. Wunpun1 (talk) 17:13, 20 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We can convert the title to "In popular culture", then improve that section;

For an example we can add this picture http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Paraleln%C3%AD_polis_-_D%C4%9Blnick%C3%A1_(Prague)_IMG_0863.JPG Throat0390 (talk) 23:11, 26 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those sources weren't good enough for an WP:IPC section.

Does a reliable source discuss anything specifically depicted in that photo? If we cannot use a source to explain what the photo means, it's a subtle form of WP:OR to include it merely as decoration. Grayfell (talk) 02:34, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Huh? Why a reliable source would discuss a picture? Throat0390 (talk) 23:22, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We shouldn't use photos just for decoration. They should tell readers something about the topic. This photo doesn't explain anything by itself, so we need a source to help us.

The photo is showing the building for the Institute of Cryptoanarchy. We don't need a reliable source that discusses the photo, but we need a reliable source that explains why the Institute of Cryptoanarchy is connected to Monero.

Our goal is to explain things to people, not to hype this cryptocurrency. Grayfell (talk) 23:37, 27 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Now it makes sense, thanks for the explanation.Throat0390 (talk) 00:27, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please just add more content to the article. We dont delete content just because it is old. Wikipedia depends on editors to add new content that they feel is important. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 02:01, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If content doesn't belong, being old is as good a reason to delete it as any. See WP:OLDSOURCES, WP:NOTNEWS, and WP:COOKIECUTTER, but also more generally WP:DUE. Please don't add content solely because you feel it is important. It's not about feels, it's about sources. Look at reliable, independent sources, and if those indicate that something is important for understanding the topic, please summarize those proportionately. Grayfell (talk) 04:13, 28 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Is monero really still untraceable?

The article prominently cites a study from 2022 which said, "For now, Monero is untraceable. However, it is probably only a matter of time and effort before it changes."

There is now considerable evidence that monero is traceable. In January 2024, Finnish authorities claimed to trace monero from an anonymous swap service, to a criminal's monero wallet, and then to Binance Exchange. ^[1] In September 2024, a company called Chainalysis released a video documenting a successful effort to trace a monero payment by intercepting IP traffic on the p2p layer. ^[2] In October 2024, Japanese authorities arrested 18 people for money laundering after tracing their monero transactions. ^[3] Even before the 2022 study was released, a company called Ciphertrace announced (in August 2021) a tool for tracing monero transactions. ^[4] After an acquisition by Mastercard, the tracing tool now appears to be part of Mastercard's "Crypto Source" product. ^[5]

Given all of this information, should the article continue to prominently suggest that monero is untraceable? Perhaps a summary of the above information could be added to the "Efforts to trace transactions" section and the quotation from the 2022 study could be supplemented with a sentence saying to see that section for more recent updates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2806:2F0:5680:F8A3:E061:6EE7:5645:9F9E (talk) 02:25, 21 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have seen no evidence that there are capabilities out there that have broken the Monero's privacy properties. Some entities are claiming to be able to do so, but there are no publicly available details. Entities like Chainalysis are only able to trace transactions done using a compromised remote node, which is an approach that is unlikely to be scalable. Most importantly, it does not have the potential to unravel past transactions recorder on the Monero blockchain. Claiming that Monero is broken because a remote node is compromised would be tantamount to claiming that email as a protocol and ecosystem is compromised because there are hacked email servers out there.

I think that there is a case to be made that the article might need to be updated, but I think these vague claims should be treated with a high degree of scepticism, and presented in that way. Melmann 20:08, 3 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

None of these five sources are reliable for this article. If Monero is hacked, and reliable sources cover it, we can use those sources to explain this. Grayfell (talk) 21:49, 3 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

Edit war over crypto news sources

This is related to this edit war.

@Squ1rrelwithagun: this is a good place to discuss the sources you wish to add.

As I've already said on this talk page multiple times, we should stick to reliable, independent sources. Wikipedia isn't a platform for breaking news, so we should not attempt to catalog every detail of change in regulation, unless we can use sources to contextualize those changes.

Since none of these sources have a reputation for accuracy and fact-checking, so they shouldn't be cited here. At this point every crypto outlet I am aware of has destroyed its own reputation. Too many conflicts-of-interest and undisclosed investments, and too much naked hype and gullibility. It doesn't really matter if you personally think this source is fine. If you want to make the case that this is an exception, you've got your work cut out for you.

For a company that's almost thirty years old, TheStreet's website is astonishingly opaque about its policies with no indication of editorial oversight at all. It looks like the company which owns it just considers it part of a brand portfolio, not a news outlet. Anyway, the article itself is just summarizing other sources, mainly a press release and another story from a crypto outlet. This article is part of TheStreet's "Roundtable" banner, but the Roundtable's about page is a train-wreck of crypto marketing nonsense. If you can't find anything better, a template:cn would be preferable to an unreliable source. Grayfell (talk) 23:46, 4 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

[1] ttps://cointelegraph.com/news/finnish-authorities-traced-monero-vastaamo-hack

[2] ttps://cointelegraph.com/news/chainalysis-leak-monero-traceability

[3] ttps://cointelegraph.com/news/monero-transactions-japanese-authorities-arrest-18-scammers

[4] ttps://news.bitcoin.com/ciphertrace-enhanced-monero-tracing-capabilities-governments/

[5] ttps://www.mastercard.com/news/press/2022/october/mastercard-to-bring-crypto-trading-capabilities-to-banks/

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