Talk:John Barresi

Contested deletion

This page should not be speedily deleted because the issues mentioned in the deleted page have been corrected. The individual is notable; he has won national awards in competitions, and international awards for performances, for his contributions to a sport, and for his contributions to the global industry. Links to several competitions, events, and trade show discussions have been added. While it is true the number of competitive kite fliers is somewhat small -- only a few thousand in organized competition each year -- kite festivals are large globally. Viewing a List of kite festivals, festivals have been active continuously in the United States since 1929, and many festivals in the US reach crowds of over 100,000 people who watch the performance demos and competitions. Kite festivals, competitions, and demonstrations across the globe have attendance records exceeding a half million people. Several nations and religions have holidays, like Hindu's Makar Sankranti and Christianity's Clean Monday, where kite flying is traditional and millions of people participate globally, and these events are part of national holidays in many countries. John Barresi has performed as the keynote pilot or on a short list of invited fliers at many such events. The old article also did not include several notable events, such as the repeated world record flies. While the old article mentioned Mr Barresi's kite designs from 2008 and 2011, his new designs from 2017 and 2018 are winning awards in the United States, Europe, and China. Mr Barresi is consistently voted among the top fliers in industry surveys like the annual Kite Addict survey linked to kn the article, and his new company (founded in 2017) is also winning awards within the industry in the United States, France, and Germany. He is often a presenter, judge, or both, at the annual Berck sur Mer kite festival which routinely has over 700,000 spectators and hundreds of competitors. So the individual and his contributions are of significance to a global industry, is not blatant promotion, and has sufficient content to be more than a stub. --Bwagstaff (talk) 16:07, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Bwagstaff, I have declined the speedy deletion request because there are far more references in this version of the article. I have not reviewed the references myself (although the fact that you are citing his own website as a source is a little concerning), but if they establish that multiple independent, secondary and reliable sources have given the subject significant coverage, then the article will not be deleted. Pharaoh of the Wizards - this is by no means a criticism of your decision to place the tag, the content is very similar to the previous version, and if you feel that the sourcing is not adequate then you should certainly nominate at AfD again. GirthSummit _(blether) 16:23, 22 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you. Part of the concern is that since the community is relatively small with thousands of active competitors, most official sources have moved to social media and to direct communications rather than relying on secondary sources to distribute news and information. Organizations like Kite Trade Association International have stopped using their domain entirely, pointing it at their facebook page. Announcements of new products come directly from the manufacturers, and are discussed on tweets, blogs and forum posts rather than traditional news. The community is tight-knit but active globally. Most news articles and Wikipedia-favored secondary sources are instead about single events, such as cities hosting a local kite show. Thus the WP:PRIMARY exceptions apply because the primary source is often the only source. John Barresi is the universal figurehead and superstar in the sport, simply referred to JB or "young John" by nearly every company, demo performer, competitor, aspiring pilot, and event organizer. He is one of the few people who has given up his day job and instead travels the world from competition to competition, from demo performance to demo performance, making most of his living from event fees and training sessions and for better or worse has become the face of the industry. Within the industry he's certainly a superstar. --Bwagstaff (talk) 04:47, 23 February 2020 (UTC)

The article is still dependent on primary sources, and I recommend finding some more reliable media sources in the outside world that have covered Mr. Barresi and his sport. ---DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 22:39, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Removing the tag regarding insufficient sources as it appears placed in error. Yes, additional secondary sources would be good if they exist, but publications tend to be limited. While he is a subject-specific notable person -- the most highly awarded active kite flyer in national and international competitions and holder of several world records -- notable people in a field are not always covered in secondary sources and mainstream news. Currently I count 37 references on the page. 22 of the links are to national and international competition standings, 15 are numbered references to a mix of sources ranging from published direct quotes about sponsorship dates, to organizations publishing their lists of past presidents and award winners, to news articles held within the industry. That is a relatively high number of citations for a biographical page of this length. Yes many award and competition citations are primary sources, which are allowed under the rules of WP:PSTS (and similar policies) with care when they are impartial, straightforward descriptive statements of facts that can be verified. Many of those links are to the official published competition results, what is more authoritative and impartial to a list of competition results than the event's own listing of competition results? What is more authoritative for industry awards than links to the award announcements within the industry's own publications? For other primary references, as a biography of a living person WP:BLPSPS expressly permits self-published statements by the subject of the article for several purposes, in this article each is used to establish dates of key events. WP:BLPSELFPUB expressly permits referencing a person's own self-published biography for claims of fact about themselves. In each case of primary sources they appear to be exclusively to document specific dates and events for the subject of the article. The remaining references are secondary, which are the preferred form. --- Bwagstaff (talk) 19:55, 30 June 2020 (UTC)