Talk:Legs Diamond

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Crime and Criminal Biography: Organized crime Mid‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Organized crime task force (assessed as Mid-importance).

United States: FBI Low‑importance

	United States portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions. Template Usage Articles Requested! Become a Member Project Talk Alerts United StatesWikipedia:WikiProject United StatesTemplate:WikiProject United StatesUnited States articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject FBI (assessed as Mid-importance).

Diamond's murderers

EVERYONE knows that Diamond was killed by Irving "Bitsy" Bitz and Sal Spitale when he wouldn't returtn their investment on a deal gone wrong.. who writes these things? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.215.252.167 (talk • contribs) 05:07, 10 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, we won't know because there are no meaningful citations in the article, in fact, are there any citations?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.218.96.45 (talk) 00:24, 3 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Half brother

he was a half brother to the actor george brent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.78.155.230 (talk) 23:09, 27 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

What is your source?  Both men's fathers are named John, but have different last names and are apparently different men.  One man's mother is named Mary and the other man's mother is named Sara.  How could they be half brothers?  2600:1700:7F11:6420:9D37:86A5:C3C7:4CAB (talk) 19:49, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Billy Bathgate reference

The reference about the novel Billy Bathgate is incorrect. The unnamed gangster that Billy meets with is clearly Lucky Luciano. He is described as Italian with a scar and a droopy eyelid. He is also in a position superior to Dutch Schultz in the underworld heirarchy. The correct reference is that the character Bo, brags to Billy about having killed Legs Diamond on orders from Dutch Shultz. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chsig (talk • contribs) 04:04, 26 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: move the article to Legs Diamond and the disambiguation page to Legs Diamond (disambiguation), per the discussion below. (Also, few links to take care of here.) Dekimasuよ! 00:39, 31 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jack Diamond (gangster) → Legs Diamond – Analogous to main title headers for biographical entries describing such infamous criminal celebrities as Lucky Luciano, Baby Face Nelson or Pretty Boy Floyd, subject was not known to the public as "Jack", but as "Legs". He is referenced as "Legs" in contemporary news coverage and has continued to be so referenced in popular culture. All the other uses of the name "Legs Diamond" which appear in the Legs Diamond (disambiguation) page are named after him, thus clearly making him the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 15:19, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Simply because they were named after him doesn't guarantee that he is the primary topic, although it is an indicator, but it must be established that this the gangster is 'more likely than all the other topics combined' to be what the reader is looking for. Incoming links also need to be resolved - incoming links that lead to a disambiguation page can cause slight inconvenience, but going to the wrong article can cause serious confusion. Nominator would usually resolve these before nominating, especially as this is its second nomination. Boleyn (talk) 17:07, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Taking into account the previously-mentioned, widely-publicized criminal nicknames "Lucky", "Baby Face", "Pretty Boy" or "Scarface" (although Al Capone was typically referenced by his given name and surname, not by the nickname and surname, "Scarface Capone"), the most widely notorious such gangster nickname may arguably be "Legs Diamond". He was the subject of a 1960 film, The Rise and Fall of Legs Diamond and the Peter Allen (musician) Broadway production, Legs Diamond (musical). As far as incoming links are concerned, these should only be revised if this request succeeds. If it does, all links flowing to Jack Diamond (gangster) would automatically appear as redirects to Legs Diamond (any templated links would need separate adjustment). Also, regarding a "second nomination", there is no record of any previous discussion on this subject. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 19:33, 24 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom and per WP:COMMONNAME. This one's very obvious. I doubt whether anyone would know who Jack Diamond was and he's clearly the primary topic for Legs Diamond. -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:06, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Support per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:NATURAL. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:51, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Also WP:PRIMARYTOPIC – the other "Legs Diamond" topics seem clearly derivative of this person's nickname, and also generally less notable. The dab page, of course, will need to be moved. (So this is actually a malformed multimove request – I see that someone already placed a notice on the other Talk page.) —BarrelProof (talk) 20:00, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Loyal... But Not?

This sentence, besides lacking a citation, doesn't actually make sense: "Diamond was also loyal,[citation needed] but was not averse to betraying someone when he saw fit." Even if it's preceded by "for a gangster," it's just illogical. It seems it has to be cut.zadignose (talk) 07:52, 12 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 20 October 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. The consensus is that the current title is both more common and more accurately conforms to out naming guidelines. Jenks24 (talk) 06:14, 28 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Legs Diamond → Jack "Legs" Diamond – The proposed name has been still often used, especially by following books and news articles. WP:TITLEFORMAT might discourage use of quotation marks, but it also allows use of them if they are used as part of name or title. Sources have done so lately. Off-topic, but there is Betty Legs Diamond. This is George Ho actually (Talk) 20:43, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Books: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7]. Uncertain about this source; it uses "Legs" mainly.
Articles: [8][9][10]. Playbill uses Jack and Legs separately. This uses proposed name once but mainly uses "Legs"; same with this one. NY Times doesn't use "Jack".
This is George Ho actually (Talk) 20:43, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: WP:NICKNAME discourages the use of names of this style for article titles, and this is especially true when the usage is inconsistent. It says "Notable distinctions can be explained in the article, but avoid (for example) adding a nickname ... between first and last name." Most sources use "Legs Diamond" predominantly or exclusively. —BarrelProof (talk) 23:55, 20 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:GUIDES, guidelines that we normally follow will be triumphed by policies (i.e. "though they are best treated with common sense, and occasional exceptions may apply."). Also, BarrelProof, per WP:DIVIDEDUSE, if "most common" name is not yet determined, "Use what would be the least surprising to a user finding the article." Sources within last 365 days: ("Legs Diamond") Forbes Sioux City Journal The Villager The Guardian Daily Beast [11] ("Jack 'Legs' Diamond") Almanac Weekly Salon [12][13][14][15][16]. I excluded articles that mention just musicals and Legs Diamond (band). George Ho (talk) 04:14, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. Not normal Wikipedia style and overwhelmingly known as Legs Diamond in any case. -- Necrothesp (talk) 07:42, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per User:BarrelProof and Necrothesp. As for come-latelys, such as "Betty Legs Diamond", BarrelProof already pointed out in the previous (October 2014) discussion that "the other "Legs Diamond" topics seem clearly derivative of this person's nickname, and also generally less notable". —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 22:00, 21 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.