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Since titles are no longer recognized in Germany or Austria, her surname, by birth, is "von Furstenberg", not to be translated as "of Furstenberg." Legally, that is her surname.204.126.250.17718:47, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And you have the authority to say that? Socially the titles still exist and are still used to refer to most of these people./ How can you change her name because of what you claim to be a legality, yet maintain the title of princess? Charles21:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How do we handle her surname now? Her legal surname is "von Furstenberg" not "of Furstenberg". And if we translate the von to "of" should we not do the same for her former sister in law, Diane von Furstenberg? Worth pondering? I think this translating of "von" etc at times can be ridiculous, frankly, especially when the person uses it as a surname rather than a geographical designation.Kitchawan16:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Ira at least uses the name Ira von Fürstenberg, would otherwise be Ira Prinzessin zu Fürstenberg and historically and socially entitled to the title and style HSH Princess Ira of Fürstenberg. I wouldn't consider it translating her surname, just using her title. She still has a surname. The difference between her and Diane is that Diane is not a princess of anything since she divorced her prince. Fürstenburg was an actual territory and members of the family still use the titles. Charles18:17, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Charles, my only question is regarding her surname, since she is known professionally and (largely) socially as Ira von Fürstenberg, does that name necessarily have to be translated?Kitchawan18:31, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My reply applies to what you asked regarding the translation. There is nothing wrong with the use within the article. The common name is given as the article title but it doesn't have to be name used within the article. Charles19:35, 21 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The naming in this article is a mess, beginning with the fact that her name clearly is given as Virginia, yet she is only referred to as Ira - who (besides her personal friends?) knows why. Also she was not "born" a serene highness - we might allow her to be called that out of courtesy, that we still must be factual about her birth. Fixing that much now.
