Talk:Hour record

Duplicate record tables

We need to figure out the situation with the two record tables. The top table showing "example record times and equipment" already includes voigt as the curent record holder, but then we have teh table of record holders further down. Im not convinced in the use of the "example records" table as its just going to lead to two tables being constantly maintained, and the only extra info in there is bike type, which can easily be covered in the descriptive text of the hour. Dimspace (talk) 20:51, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

maybe just remove the second entry for each rider, so we reduce it in total to maybe 7-8 records, taking out the second moser, second obree, second boardman etc. It is only meant to be an "example" table, not a full table of all records. Dimspace (talk) 20:54, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Females

how about incorporating female record holders, which have included the great Jeannie Longo?

Great idea. Go for it! adamrice 13:38, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

well, I took a stab but not any kind of editor ...

Obree

my other comment is to opine that the noteworthiness of G Obree was not the homemade bike aspect but more that he was a non TDF outsider--Billymac00 00:59, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Merckx/End of Career

The article says that Merckx did his hour record toward the end of his career when in fact in 1972 he was just around the middle of his career. While he had already won four editions of the Tour de France and three of the Giro d'Italia, he was still in the midst of dominating the sport and would win a further four grand tours at that stage not to mention one world championships, three Milan San Remos, one Paris-Roubaix etc. As Merckx'es career ended in spring of 1978 his hour record attempt would have been toward the end of his career if he attempted it in 1975, in my opinion.--Dawesaudax (talk) 06:46, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Ive also removed boardman as he attempted it through his entire career, Indurain is debatable as he won a tour after the hour.. Only really moser and voigt were actually at career end and that is hardly enough to define the hour as "usually being attempted by riders at the end of their career"Dimspace (talk) 16:58, 4 October 2014 (UTC)

And now we have riders going for it early im their career :D Dimspace (talk) 19:36, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

Tandem

If you are going to include the 1980 Ron Skarin & Eric Hollander tandem record, you ought to include the conventional record that it beat: 49.991km set in Milan by Bill Paul and Ernie Mills in 1936 - 44 years earlier (and still standing in 1998 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/185129.stm ). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.102.133.145 (talk) 17:00, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Pictures:

Hi gang, I don't have access to public domain pictures or the skills to add them in Wiki's current editor, but this article would really benefit from some pictures, particularly of the different technologies used in the different classes. Off to a good start though. Maybe Adam Cuerden can dig up some shots of the old timers from the past. Cheers Billyshiverstick (talk) 23:41, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Hi all. Suggest that the current mens & womens record holder should feature as the main pictures. Also be good to have the pictures of the earliest record holders, men's already there, women's not. Will get on it. Later: Adding pictures has defeated me, unfortunately. Suggestions re current pictures:

1. Replace former women's holder with current holder pic.
2. Insert current men's holder pic.
3. Keep a Bradley Wiggins pic as he is still the current sea-level world's best holder, but change the current pic to one from the Wiggins record attempt, perhaps with a headshot inset.
4. Insert pic of Mlle Saint Sauveur, first womens record holder ino Early section. Only known rights-free pic is the line drawing at this webpage:  . (Note there is a licensed photo of a postcard of Mlle Saint Sauveur, which I think dates from 1893, the photo is of a postcard, which is not copyright, but cannot find a free photo of this postcard (it is reproduced at the same Podium Cafe webpage. There does not seem to be any other images of Mlle Saint Sauveur)

Cheers, Glenn.mar.oz Glenn.mar.oz (talk) 14:05, 5 October 2021 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glenn.mar.oz (talk • contribs) 11:56, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

References

Hour record-holders and dates table

The table Hour record-holders and dates is not formatting quite right for me. I don't see what is messed up in the markup but the c and d columns are not seperated. Note this on is FireFox. XFEM Skier (talk) 04:28, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

New table added

What on earth is this new table added in. It seems completely superflous and very confusing. We already have a complete table of records going back to the 1800's and we have the current table that covers records since 1972. This new table is utterly confusing, includes records that arent records, has no particular order to it, includes things like Bobridges failed attempt because it was an australian record (could just have a page for australian hour records). And to further confuse the matter the unified rule change tuff has been sent to another page just duplicating all the current information. total mess. Dimspace (talk) 18:25, 8 February 2015 (UTC)

Maybe this page needs cleaving in to two separate pages; I thinks it's fair to assume that the majority of people who come to this page are looking for the conventional-cycling related hour record, so why not remove all of the non conventional information into an hour record page which covers IHPVA/WHPVA hour records etc. XyZAn (talk) 10:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

very much my thought. Im splitting the recumbent/non conventional into a seperate article. I have a feeling the editors that are working on the big table etc are recumbent fans, so that will probably seperate the "additional" info over thereDimspace (talk) 19:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi Dimspace I'm going to comment here - rather than using the Unified rule hour record page.

First thing, great work splitting off the non-conventional stuff from this article.

My thoughts are (in order of what I think we should do to improve the article as a whole);

• completely remove the "Comprehensive record attempt list" table - it's huge, ungainly, and doesn't offer an improvement to the article
• split all the tables we have into seperate smaller ones where one table = one 'type' of hour record. I.e, one table for each of the following; (a) UCI unified record (from 2014), (b) UCI hour record (until 2014), (c) UCI best human effort (1972–2014). Only IMO those tables which have different types of hour record in are over complicated - do this for men and women and then auto-hide all the tables except the unified rules one
• Next we need to trim the prose down to the essential - I think looking at and using the unified rule page as a template.
• Remove or update the graph
• When all this is done we can copy over everything from the unified page as I think that layout is much improved in comparison to all the current tables.

Thoughts?

XyZAn (talk) 20:22, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Agree on the whole. im just re-arranging to a better flow.

*Going to move the mens record complete table above the 1972 list and remove the post 1972 entries, so it is mens record 189? to 1972, an then detailed records from 1972, and then the same with the womens records. So its at least crunched down, put in order and neatened.

*as far as the full list goes. Clearly someones put a lot of work into it, but its the sort of information that is much better hosted on a private website and linked to in the "other references" for people who wish to find out more about the hour record. For now im going to shift it to the bottom and autohide it pending contact from the editor so we can discuss them maybe hosting it on a private server and simply linking to it in the sources. Wikipedia isnt really the place for personal projects which this appears to be

For now, im going to complete the re-arrangement tonight (and also try and make the old womens records in the same layout as the mens and then we can progress onto tidying up prose etc. Dimspace (talk) 20:34, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I think, going on what youve said above about breaking down the tables, it would be nice maybe to take the historic table - 1800's to 1950's and put that in the "history " section, then the obree period into the superman timeline, and then modern day records post unified rule change, but need to get everything in some sort of order first. Dimspace (talk) 20:35, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Dimspace Look at my sandboxed page here - this is what I mean for the tables, just copy and paste it in User:XyZAn/sandbox/hour-rec-rejig

Dimspace I've copied the tables from my sandbox over - it seems like a quick fix for the tables for now. XyZAn (talk) 20:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Looks good. Ive redone the womens historical records to the same format as the mens. I just need to lookup the locations and add them in - So just needs post 2014 records adding back in to the main mens part. Dimspace (talk) 21:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Or do we just move the unified rule change text below the main tables of results (the up to 14 with equipment tables) and then just maintain one article going forward. Dimspace (talk) 21:15, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

XyZAn Just seen what you suggested earlier. YES. Bring over the unified rule stuff (post mens/womens records - but pre historical records), then we autocollapse all the other tables so just the unified are expanded - that will lok good and present the current information while retaining the original information. Dimspace (talk) 21:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Dimspace I've added the tables and info from the unified page, could you auto collapse all the tables except the mens and womens unified ones. Could you also set the unified page to redirect to this page only I dont know how to do it :) Thanks! great working with you!! XyZAn (talk) 22:07, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

At some point, the 1972-2014 'Hour' and 'Best Human Effort' tables were presumably swapped, so we had the odd situation where the 1972 record was some way down the page after post-1972 rides. I've swapped them back, so that Merckx's record follows the 1968 Ritter one, rather than the 1996 Boardman 'BHE' one.

I have also changed the start date on the BHE tables to reflect the first ride in them. Arguably, they could go back to 1972 - but then need to start with Merckx and Cressari! I can't find anything on uci.ch that says what they regard as the first BHE record. Lovingboth (talk) 11:09, 10 June 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup and restructuring

XyZAn I would order the article now as follows:

History
UCI Hour Record
- mens record holders (both tables hidden)
- Womens record holders (both tables hidden)
Unified Rule Change
- mens attempts followed by table
- womens attempts followed by able
Historic records
- mens
- womens

Will have a look at it after dinner :D Dimspace (talk) 22:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Dimspace, that looks good and logical, i'm going to go through the prose and see if I can trim extraneous info - then thats me done for today! XyZAn (talk) 22:20, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Dimspace I've trimmed the prose a bit and sub-divided it into the specific historical periods, i.e, Merckx vs Moser and Obree vs BoardmanXyZAn (talk) 22:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Where are we on the inclusion of images from newspaper archives. I have to admit, uploading images to Wiki baffles me. But for instance, contemporary newspaper report of Van Oosten's record in 1978 http://zoeken.krantenbankzeeland.nl/issue/pzc/1978-09-18/edition/0/page/16?query=Keetie%20Van%20Oosten&period=1978&sort=relevance Dimspace (talk) 22:44, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Hi there, Dimspace, I have no idea - it's not something I've done before and I'm not sure what we'd need to do to keep all the copyright people happy etc XyZAn (talk) 17:42, 28 February 2015 (UTC)

I recommend you check out WP:IUP. I would also say that in general no as the images are probably copyrighted and the copyright has probably not expired. But the location of publication might affect all of these. XFEM Skier (talk) 19:01, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

XFEM Skier - yeh, i had a read through that. The particular images i was thinking about would be "scans" of contemporary news reports from back along, which possibly could fall under "fair use". I may actually just contact the newspaper in question directly and see what their position is on it. it technically wouldnt be reproduction of an image directly, but reproduction of a newspaper article containing an image for instance http://i59.tinypic.com/karyuq.png. bit complicated, think i will contact the publishers directly and see how they view it :D Dimspace (talk) 19:31, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Dimspace My understanding of fair use is that if we were discussing the article we could use a copy of it, but just as part of a related article it probably won't fly. Certainly if you can get the paper to agree to release the copyright than that would be great. But they will need to release the copyright to wikipedia which might be troublesome. XFEM Skier (talk) 23:32, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Sections

The 1972 record should appear with the Historical hour records. The following section can mention 1972 but should focus primarily on records set from 1984 with new technology. This is the key division between sections. The arrangement of the pictures should reflect this too. --Darrelljon (talk) 22:45, 26 August 2016 (UTC)

Rules for UCI Masters

Reading the sections and age groups for UCI Masters records, I wonder why Voigt's and Wiggins' (and Toft's, if a record in a higher age group doesn't count toward a younger one) distances don't count towards their respective age groups. There are no references to rules for these records, which makes it look weird. What are the rules? 212.237.134.38 (talk) 20:37, 31 July 2019 (UTC)curious cycling fan.

Other bicycle types

There is an hour record on penny-farthing, governed by Guinness. It's also held indoors. Even though it isn't governed by UCI it's a bicycle. It should be part of the article. 185.18.60.184 (talk) 07:40, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

Oliver Bridgewood's attempt at beating Merckx

I have a feeling the answer will be no, but should Oliver Bridgewood of GCN's hour record attempt be incorporated on this page? TGRFAN (talk) 20:15, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Its an interesting story, but until the UCI verify that he has set a record, it doesn't belong in the article. --Find bruce (talk) 23:05, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Dan Bigham

I have removed Dan Bigham's ride from the table "Men's UCI hour record attempts". It was a great ride but was not a UCI attempt because he didn't have the £8,000 it would cost for a biological passport etc. [1] I have added a paragraph to the section on the UCI requirements with reference to his ride. Molly Shaffer Van Houweling had the same issue back in 2015 [2]. --Find bruce (talk) 00:29, 2 October 2021 (UTC)

Ellen van Dijk Record

I see we have a new record! I'll try to get the plot updated in the next few weeks (unfortunately I can't do it right away, it requires some manual tweaking to prevent overlaps). --Falcorian ^(talk) 21:48, 23 May 2022 (UTC)

Done. -- Falcorian ^(talk) 21:45, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

FL Dodds

Hi all. WRT FL Dodds, one of the three men who may have set the 'first' (paced) Hour Record, could we talk about his identity? For several years now it has been assumed he was an American called Frank and that claim has been passed down from one source to the next, making it true through repetition. The reality is he was a Briton called Frederick Lindley. There is hard evidence backing this up: George Lacy Hillier, who was first to claim Dodds set the first Hour record (a decade and a half after the fact and based on an estimated distance covered in a race) tells us Dodds was at that time a student of Trinity College, Cambridge and later a resident of Stockton-on-Tees; the 'Alumni Cantabrigienses' (a sort of 'Who's Who' of Cambridge students) lists only one FL Dodds as a student of the university when Dodds's record was set, Frederick Lindley Dodds, of Stockton-on-Tees. The mere fact that a load of books have passed down one from the next the claim that Dodds was an American called Frank should not be sufficient to stop us from correcting an error. Cycling history is riddled with hand-me-down 'facts' that are wrong. That is unfortunate but that is the way it is. Mallon and Heijmans's 'Historical Dictionary of Cycling' (a cited source for Dodds being an American called Frank) got a lot wrong. It says the first women's Hour Record was set by Hélène Durieu (sic). You accept research that contradicts that claim and shows that Mlle de Saint-Sauveur (first name unknown) actually set the first women's Hour Record and that 'Durieu' is actually Hélène Dutrieu. So, can we talk about giving FL Dodds his true identity? For more on the research here see this FMK RoI (talk) 15:22, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Sounds a lot like original research. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that summarises what the [[WP:RS| say. User generated content such as that blogpost are not generally considered reliable sources. Is there a reliable source that sets out the information you think should be included? Find bruce (talk) 21:58, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Radamés Treviño not displayed as record holder

Wikipedia's entry for mexican cyclist Radamés Treviño (http://en.wiki.x.io/wiki/Radam%C3%A9s_Trevi%C3%B1o) states that he set a world hour record in 1969, however his name is not displayd in any of the tables. 2806:109F:15:5C7A:1149:D03A:289F:7C21 (talk) 04:37, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

The source linked to that claim states that he set an amateur record. That's a subclass within the Hour (others include indoor/outdoor, sealevel/altitude, masters, para, national etc. The distance is reported as having been 46.960 kms, well short of Ole Ritter's official record of 48.653 set the previous year.

~ fmk 185.38.60.101 (talk) 17:06, 28 January 2024 (UTC)